***VIDEO - MICHAEL JOHNSON VS. DONOVAN BAILEY 150 METER SHOWDOWN

Agreed. People seem to forget what a tiger Johnson was. He never ducked anybody. That dude went right after the best all the time.

aigitblah wrote:

but I bet there were appearance fees and it's probably hard to turn down the chance to win a million dollars in one race.

Pretty sure it was $1 million for the winner, $500,000 for the looser. That makes appearance money of $500,000 and a purse of another $500,000.

One of the best 200/400 runners!!!???

I would consider him the best track & field athlete of all time. He won everything, has the single greatest individual performance with his 19.32, and had a long career.

well bekele may not be the best...but i cant think that any amount of training or drugs could have allowed zatopek to even aproach him.

mandingo wrote:

THis argument always comes up when people just use world records to determine the greatest ever. If it was that easy we'd never debate it!

Is Johnson better than Jesse Owens for example? Bekele better than Zatopek? Because of training methods , equipment , tracks etc. we don't just say the curretn world record holder is the best ever. Of course a very good arguement could be made for Johnson being the greatest 200/400 ever but I would site his won/loss record and championship performances not times.

this is nice...

hey realitly check buddy we are talking about donovan this is not a discusion about how tracks are different i am saying johnson is the best running in his era...i dont' think donovan was running on cender tracks bud so don't try that with me and yes i think johnson is better than jessy owens.. why do people think that track is no better now. think about it. do people not natural get bigger stronger and faster.. i think soo and i don't see track and field being any different

its kinda hard folks to agrue against bekele who has what records ...5. 10...and johnson who has the 2 and 4 record. how could you not think they are the best in them events. times speak for itself. and they were winners!!!and both have great personalities. so sorry bud but your not winning this one

also very nice, all the hype into nothing, what a race

I know this is a Donovan thread. I was sticking up for Bailey when someone tried to trash him as someone who was forgotten. In doing so I wanted to give Johnson his due even though on that day it was all DB. My only point is that the world record holder although the fastest ever for that distance isn't necessarily the greatest ever at that distance. I just pulled out Bekele/Zatepok. How about VIren / Bekele? HOw about the 15th fastest guy in the world right now who has a better PB than VIren? Is he better than Viren who won four Olympic gold medals just because his PB is better? Its about more than just times run.

As far as the hamstring/ quad injury; my mistake it was quad. I never though MJ was faking his injury.

well it's funney how the races he was loosing he happend to get injuried and i wasn't talking about the top 15 people with a better time i am talkin about guys who are proven winners.. you dont' have to have the fastest time to be the best but i think micheal resemue speaks for itself

Other Achievements: Michael Johnson has won four Olympic gold medals (2 gold medals for the 4 x 400m relay, 1 for the 400m, and 1 for the 200 m) and has won the world champion title nine times.

What makes him so special?: Michael Johnson was a powerhouse in the 1990s, virtually unbeatable. He didn't just break world records, he shattered them. Often beating opponents by several seconds. He is also an inspiration to any athlete who gets injured, because despite injuring himself in 1997, he still won the world champion title in the 400 m that year. He had some of the same problems in 1998, which he overcame to win the title again with a new world record.

now in all that does it say anything about times...no...do you think baily has better creditials than that?? no so you loose this arguement anyway you wanna take it..weither it's from times or winning..soo but the facts prove itself.

try some other trend cuz this ones not working for you

Dude; try to follow the thread.

Just to recap:

The thread started out about how big a bust the showdown was. Someone tried to say D. Bailey was a big talker and forgotten. I stuck up for D. Bailey but I wanted to do it without trashing Johnson. In doing so I said Johnson was one of the greatest ever. Because I didn't categorically state he was the "greatest" some guys are taking this as Johnson trashing! I practically bowed down before the Johnson statue at the MJ track in Beaverton! (coolest ever carved out of the forest) I'm a huge MJ fan. I just don't think you can always just say the world record holder is the greatest ever. Greatest of his era; absolutely. I never said Bailey was better than Johnson. Well I'll say it now on the day of the showdown he was.

And if I can give you a posting tip; when you cut and paste from another source as you did about Johnson ('Other achievments...' to '...new world record'); it makes your poor spelling, diction and grammer really look atrocious. That's saying something because I'm a pretty bad speller myself.

A list of championship meets for MJ - maybe someone has a list a list of all his sub45s and sub44s

1990 Goodwill Games Seattle, Washington 1st 200 m

1991 IAAF / Mobil Grand Prix Final Barcelona, Spain 1st 200 m

1991 IAAF World Championships Tokyo, Japan 1st 200 m

1992 1992 Summer Olympics Barcelona, Spain 1st 4x400 m Relay

1993 IAAF / Mobil Grand Prix Final London, Great Britain 3rd 200 m

1993 IAAF World Championships Stuttgart, Germany 1st 4x400 m Relay

1993 IAAF World Championships Stuttgart, Germany 1st 400 m

1994 Goodwill Games St. Petersburg, Russia 1st 200 m

1995 IAAF / Mobil Grand Prix Final Monaco 1st 200 m

1995 IAAF World Championships Göteburg, Sweden 1st 4x400 m Relay

1995 IAAF World Championships Göteburg, Sweden 1st 200 m

1995 IAAF World Championships Göteburg, Sweden 1st 400 m

1996 1996 Summer Olympics Atlanta, Georgia 1st 200 m

1996 1996 Summer Olympics Atlanta, Georgia 1st 400 m

1997 IAAF World Championships Athens, Greece 1st 400 m

1998 Goodwill Games New York City, New York 1st 400 m

1999 IAAF World Championships Sevilla, Spain 1st 4x400 m Relay

1999 IAAF World Championships Sevilla, Spain 1st 400 m

2000 U.S. Olympic Trials Sacramento, California 1st 400 m

2000 2000 Summer Olympics Sydney, Australia 1st 4x400 m Relay

2000 2000 Summer Olympics Sydney, Australia 1st 400 m

Just a note:

Prior to MJ in the 1996 trials where he ran 19.66, the 100m world record of 9.85 (lowered at the 1996 Olympics by Donovan Bailey to 9.84) by Leroy Burrell was actually faster than the current 200m world record of 19.72 by Pietro Monea.

Even with the flying start going into the last 100, no 200 runner before or since MJ has been able to get their pace low enough to actually make any claim to being the world's fastest human.

Another note:

MJ's last 100m in his 19.32 200m were covered in 9.06 seconds.

Despite it all, Bailey owned him in that 150.

I bet if you could find MJ's 150 split in the 19.32 race, it still wouldn't be very far ahead of Bailey's 14.99.

If Meenea ran 19.72 for an average of 9.86 in sept of 1979 but Carl Lewis didn't run 9.86 (the new WR) until august of 1991 then couldn't Meenea make the same claim; fastest man in the world for those 12 years?

johnny be bad wrote:

Often beating opponents by several seconds.

I realize you are just plagiarizing someone else's work without attribution, but can you list some of these races where he 'often' beat opponents by 'several seconds'?

I'd give you benefit of the doubt if he was an 800m guy, but over 200 and 400?

well here are a few of good races for you!

1999 RESULTS

Men

100m wind aided (+3.5 m/s)

Athlete Affiliation Time

1 Maurice Greene USA (Nike) 9.84 w

2 Bernard Williams USA (Barton Cty. CC) 10.11

3 Tim Harden USA (Nike) 10.12

4 Jon Drummond USA (Nike) 10.14

5 Kareem Streete-Thompson USA (Nike) 10.22

6 Terry Bowen USA (Fila) 10.29

7 Jonathan Carter USA (Fila) 10.44

200m wind aided (3.1m/s)

Athlete Affiliation Time

1 Maurice Greene USA (Nike) 20.06 w

2 Koji Ito Japan 20.34

3 Tyree Washington USA (Reebok) 20.40

4 Kevin Little USA (USWest) 20.58

5 Rohsaan Griffin USA (Asics) 20.59

6 Mike Marsh USA (SMTC) 20.66

7 Ramon Clay USA (Asics) 20.71

8 Gentry Bradley USA (Nike) 21.29

400m

Athlete Affiliation Time

1 Michael Johnson USA 44.51

2 Mark Richardson Great Britain 45.26

3 Sanderlei Parrela Brazil 45.39

4 Alvin Harrison USA(Nike) 45.55

5 Milton Campbell USA(adidas) 45.69

Davien Clark USA(Nike) DQ

Danny McCray USA(Nike) DQ

Andre Morris USA(Fila TC) DQ

LOOKS LIKE HE WON THAT PRETTY EASY AND WELL UNDER 45

this next result is from the olympics(2000)

400

Final

1, Michael Johnson, Dallas, 43.84.

2, Alvin Harrison, Orlando, Fla., 44.40.

3, Gregory Haughton, Jamaica, 44.70.

4, Sanderlei Parrela, Brazil, 45.01.

5, Robert Mackowiak, Poland, 45.14.

6, Hendrick Mokganyetsi, South Africa, 45.26.

7, Antonio Pettigrew, Macon, Ga., 45.42.

8, Danny McFarlane, Jamaica, 45.55

johnny be bad wrote:

well here are a few of good races for you!

That's a great list and all, and I do appreciate that you actually read my post where I requested races where Johnson (not Greene) won races by "several seconds".

The two Johnson races you list were won with margins of 0.75 and 0.56 seconds respectively, a far cry from "several seconds".

Feel free to try again.

although not "several seconds" MJ set the world record in 99 by over a second - 43.18 and did it against the best in the world at the world champs in Seville. Second was 44.29

ambassador orange wrote:

although not "several seconds" MJ set the world record in 99 by over a second - 43.18 and did it against the best in the world at the world champs in Seville. Second was 44.29

He didn't set it by over a second!!! The previous WR was 43.29.