HR is by far the worst method to determine threshold effort. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the physiology.
Nah, it's fine. You're just not very good at interpreting it.
agree HR is a fine proxy for your average hobby jogger.
I have a good idea of my LT1 and LT2 HRs
For my threshold reps, I aim to run them at a steady pace, and have a fairly stable increase toward just under the LT2 HR, just before the end of the rep (but not exceeding that LT2 HR)
Nah, it's fine. You're just not very good at interpreting it.
agree HR is a fine proxy for your average hobby jogger.
I have a good idea of my LT1 and LT2 HRs
For my threshold reps, I aim to run them at a steady pace, and have a fairly stable increase toward just under the LT2 HR, just before the end of the rep (but not exceeding that LT2 HR)
Again this is horrible advice for a large population. You will get innaccurate paces 95% of the time. If this is your only option you are much better off using effort.
…
How do you understand what effort level to do your reps at?
Nah, it's fine. You're just not very good at interpreting it.
How do you think threshold training works? Do you understand what is being trained? Do you understand how those factors affect HR?
It's really not that complicated. Threshold HR does not exist.
i generally abide by canova's interpretation of threshold training in that the goal is to develop your ability to produce, transport, use, and oxidize lactate [1]. this means increasing the number of mitochondria and their ability to oxidize lactate [2], increasing the number of MCT transporters [3], increasing local blood supply [4], and improving your ability to deal with pH changes [5]. heart rate is a reasonable surrogate for effort with the caveats that it drifts with heat and dehydration. it's not a perfect estimate of the lactate turnpoint (do you need me to define that one for you too?), but if your HR drifts upwards during a workout as your pace remains the same, it's a sign that you may be running too fast. you can't go into a workout with a set HR in mind, but by measuring your HR over multiple workouts you can get an idea for how it relates to effort. [1]
How do you think threshold training works? Do you understand what is being trained? Do you understand how those factors affect HR?
It's really not that complicated. Threshold HR does not exist.
i generally abide by canova's interpretation of threshold training in that the goal is to develop your ability to produce, transport, use, and oxidize lactate [1]. this means increasing the number of mitochondria and their ability to oxidize lactate [2], increasing the number of MCT transporters [3], increasing local blood supply [4], and improving your ability to deal with pH changes [5]. heart rate is a reasonable surrogate for effort with the caveats that it drifts with heat and dehydration. it's not a perfect estimate of the lactate turnpoint (do you need me to define that one for you too?), but if your HR drifts upwards during a workout as your pace remains the same, it's a sign that you may be running too fast. you can't go into a workout with a set HR in mind, but by measuring your HR over multiple workouts you can get an idea for how it relates to effort. [1]
“It’s a sign that you may be running too fast”: may. Even on a cool day and at a genuinely easy pace (not beginning or proceeding in a dehydrated state), is some cardiac drift reasonable to expect or not?
If you are in about 18:00 5k shape, then the answer is "slightly slower than your 5k pace, but not that much slower."
Looking at OP's wording, I don't know if that will help him much. And I don't think slightly is the word for a 15+ second per km difference.
For an 18:00 5k runner (3:34/km), LT might be around 3:52/km -- quite a bit slower than 5k pace.
If he has raced the 10k and/or HM lately, he should think of threshold as a bit slower than 10k pace (likely ~3:44/km) and slightly faster than equivalent HM pace (~3:55/km).
And the OP is asking how much effort to use. Do you have any advice there? It takes effort for me to run for 4 minutes or 4 hours, but I'm pretty sure I'm not doing threshold pace for either of those.
And the OP is asking how much effort to use. Do you have any advice there? It takes effort for me to run for 4 minutes or 4 hours, but I'm pretty sure I'm not doing threshold pace for either of those.
The dude says he’s a fan of expats. I’d guess he means Gertrude Stein. And in the spirit of what she had written, he’s decided to take the tack of there being “no there there.”
In my brief experience since getting a lactate meter- training at true LT2 means changing your pace based on the distance of interval you’re running. If I were to run 4 miles continuous at the pace I could sustain “all out” for one hour, my lactate would test stupid high, probably over twice what my “LT2” would be. I recently raced a half, ran 5:40 pace. Few weeks later I go into a workout fresh as a daisy and test 8.x on lactate running a 2 mile rep at 5:50 pace, which would be my race pace for atleast 90 minutes. On the other hand when I do 1k reps at 5:25 pace my lactate states around 3-3.5… at the end of the day I do notice that regardless of how frustratingly slow I have to run, I do notice decreased recovery on those days when I run my lactate way past LT2. It drives me crazy, and shows me that sticking to one pace as “LT2” regardless of the session I’m doing, means nothing.
LT2 is the exercise intensity at which blood lactate begins to rise rapidly and sustainably above baseline clearance capacity. Beyond this point, lactate accumulation accelerates and fatigue develops much faster. For most well trained runners this is around 10 mile race pace. If you're only doing one session per week I wouldn't be worrying too much about physiological minutiae - run hard and have fun.
