pondering this, I think just having a dominate hs program for decades is in itself an indictment of questionable training. Since in ny the public schools pull from a set geographic region with little recruitment it doesn’t make logical sense for unbroken sucsess short of being a district with some sort Kenyan diaspora.
You need 10+ kids to perform at top level each years and the numbers are far too stochastic to do that without running them into the ground.
Saying a coach has no regard for injury or mental health based solely on allegation or opinion is defamation.
Saying there are issues serious enough to investigate does not mean there are serious issues. The correct statement is that there are allegations serious enough to investigate.
Agreed completely. No one should be making a statement about anyone losing their homes.
Donations collected for legal fees are quite legitimate when pursuing accountability, especially when they are not collected for legal defense. You have stated that there is no lawsuit, which is why legal defense would be required.
Incorrect. All nonrenewal decisions are appealable through NYS Commissioner of Education, where information used during discovery becomes public record.
Correct. The allegation was bad enough to result in suspension.
Incorrect. Should allegations become verified, all it will do is verify the allegations. It does not mean the coach will be nonrenewed. The allegations are not public knowledge, unless you have specific knowledge about the allegations and wish to share the specifics.
Being discussed in the community, only parents are being interviewed. That is interesting.
Saying a coach has no regard for injury or mental health based solely on allegation or opinion is defamation.
Saying there are issues serious enough to investigate does not mean there are serious issues. The correct statement is that there are allegations serious enough to investigate.
Agreed completely. No one should be making a statement about anyone losing their homes.
Donations collected for legal fees are quite legitimate when pursuing accountability, especially when they are not collected for legal defense. You have stated that there is no lawsuit, which is why legal defense would be required.
Incorrect. All nonrenewal decisions are appealable through NYS Commissioner of Education, where information used during discovery becomes public record.
Correct. The allegation was bad enough to result in suspension.
Incorrect. Should allegations become verified, all it will do is verify the allegations. It does not mean the coach will be nonrenewed. The allegations are not public knowledge, unless you have specific knowledge about the allegations and wish to share the specifics.
Being discussed in the community, only parents are being interviewed. That is interesting.
Exactly. So if the allegations are confirmed to be a violation of the DASA, then do you feel his contract should be renewed?
Either he violated it or he didn’t. There’s no gray area, there is no in between.
And you do realize that posts on a running message board are not use in a court of law. I don’t see any of the people complaining about the coach are threatening the supporters or creating a GoFundMe to support costs for a lawsuit if he is renewed.
Problem anymore for track coaches is that it's not football where you can be hard nosed. Football coaches scream at guys, hurt their feelings, call them names but if a track coach did that in the age of woke society today, he's in trouble especially if he's coaching: high schoolers with helicopter parents, girls and/or women. Not saying this cat did those things, just noting that you have to walk on eggshells. For track coaches it's typically unique to other sports for coaching both genders, that's why you also see a problem with sexual indiscretions as well.
Thou art holier than thou . I’m guessing you are one of the helicopter parents of FM . I don’t know Ardis , and don’t even coach in Section 3 but here is my educated guess from coaching high school track for 30 years. Ardis has coached multiple national champions using a high mileage recipe. A couple kids want to be on the team but don’t want to do the work . Ardis says no way , they say they are hurt, Ardis sticks to his guns , maybe they even get a weak note from a doctor. Ardis still sticks to his guns. Helicopter parents hire a lawyer who intimidates the new AD. Ardis is retired and the helicopter parents figure he can’t match them in a legal battle and will retire . Now suddenly Ardis is going to raise $100,000 and the tables are turned. If the facts don’t back up the parents , they are looking at incurring hundreds of thousands in damages.
Of course not. That would depend on the severity of the allegations, and also the findings of the investigation. As an example, sometimes allegations are inflated based on perspective, or sometimes even to cause harm. So the findings may differ from the allegations.
Also, districts address founded complaints if they aren’t found to have been severe with discipline or formal methods if discipline is not necessary, and in such cases districts generally do not move to simply non-renew unless there is a history of disciplinary action against the coach.
Now a coach with no disciplinary actions taken against them over the course of a decades long and successful career…if that happens to be the case…non-renewal may be the desired outcome for some, but it may not be what they end up with.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Incorrect. Message board comments, forum posts, and social media content are heavily used during discovery. Any comment that is relevant to the claims or defenses in a case is generally discoverable, and courts treat them the same as emails, letters, or diaries.
These are merely factual responses to your comments regarding how the legal system operates.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
pondering this, I think just having a dominate hs program for decades is in itself an indictment of questionable training. Since in ny the public schools pull from a set geographic region with little recruitment it doesn’t make logical sense for unbroken sucsess short of being a district with some sort Kenyan diaspora.
You need 10+ kids to perform at top level each years and the numbers are far too stochastic to do that without running them into the ground.
This is quite funny coming from someone that apparently is from Section 2.This section has some of the largest schools in the state. They should be able to find decent runners year after year. All you have to do is find two kids per grade that can run out of 500+ kids.
I don't know anything about the parents at FM that have brought these allegations but the parents I have encountered in Section 2 really have no clue about running. They just go along blindly with whatever the program is doing at the moment. One thing I don't understand is why there are certain programs and parents that are engaged in quid pro quo and pay for play activities that never get investigated.
So can every other large school in a given section. What sets the kids apart in FM from one with a weaker program, a coach that is willing to work the kids harder than the other school. Hs coaching isn’t magic. You run through kids or you don’t. It’s easy to see which programs are which
So can every other large school in a given section. What sets the kids apart in FM from one with a weaker program, a coach that is willing to work the kids harder than the other school. Hs coaching isn’t magic. You run through kids or you don’t. It’s easy to see which programs are which
You're contradicting yourself. Large schools don't run through kids. They actually focus on a few and ignore the rest. I've seen plenty of practices where the top couple of girls get the quality workouts while everyone else is basically jogging around.
Asking the kids to put in a decent amount of miles over the summer or early in the season is hardly being run through. The sport is competitive running. I know it's a wild concept but to get good at this competitive running thing you actually have to run a lot and sometimes you have have to run quite fast. It that's too much work or your body can't handle it then there's always soccer, tennis, swimming, field hockey, lacrosse, flag football or even chess club.
You stated, “Donations collected for legal fees are quite legitimate when pursuing accountability, especially when they are not collected for legal defense. You have stated that there is no lawsuit, which is why legal defense would be required.”
What I don’t understand is why there is a GoFundMe tugging on the heartstrings of the running community, where there has been no decision made by the school district, either way at this time? If the allegations come out to be unfounded, and the coach returns in the fall what is the plan for the funds? Will they be returned? To me, it seems like a premature publicity stunt. Now, if this GoFundMe was to raise funds for his ailing wife, then 100% understood!
I don’t know, maybe just wait for the School district to make their decision before jumping the gun and slandering and insulting current athletes and families. Just a thought.
$22,000 raised in two days with a goal of $100,000 should be a red flag for the parents pushing this. In the 1990s, the Kranicks sued some parents who made similar allegations and were awarded $75,000. I would not be surprised if some FM parents will lose their homes. The factor of damages here is much higher.
One of the former runners on the girls team donated $5000. Now THAT is someone who loved having Aris as a coach
Aris had 20-30 athletes at a time, sometimes less. Over the decades a few were truly exceptional ("The Great Nick Ryan") but most were average to below average athletes, that lacked the coordination to excel in soccer or other sports.
$22,000 raised in two days with a goal of $100,000 should be a red flag for the parents pushing this. In the 1990s, the Kranicks sued some parents who made similar allegations and were awarded $75,000. I would not be surprised if some FM parents will lose their homes. The factor of damages here is much higher.
Sorry but in this case it’s the parents and school that hired a lawyer to invest Bill. Everyone who supports Bill is helping him to be able to clear his good name and stop the nonsense
Shame on you for suggesting and even rooting for the accusers to lose their homes. It sounds like a threat made to silence them anyone contacted by the investigators.
I have no connection to FM but it appears that the accusers have raised their concerns in the proper way. They have a legal right to share their experiences and seek an investigation. They are not speaking publicly about it thus are protected from slander and libel countersuits.
Aris should encourage an investigation if there is nothing for him to hide. It is disgusting for you to threaten the accusers (aka the victims).
You stated, “Donations collected for legal fees are quite legitimate when pursuing accountability, especially when they are not collected for legal defense. You have stated that there is no lawsuit, which is why legal defense would be required.”
What I don’t understand is why there is a GoFundMe tugging on the heartstrings of the running community, where there has been no decision made by the school district, either way at this time? If the allegations come out to be unfounded, and the coach returns in the fall what is the plan for the funds? Will they be returned? To me, it seems like a premature publicity stunt. Now, if this GoFundMe was to raise funds for his ailing wife, then 100% understood!
I don’t know, maybe just wait for the School district to make their decision before jumping the gun and slandering and insulting current athletes and families. Just a thought.
They hired a lawyer to investigate. It was in the news. Bill has a right to defend himself
Aris had 20-30 athletes at a time, sometimes less. Over the decades a few were truly exceptional ("The Great Nick Ryan") but most were average to below average athletes, that lacked the coordination to excel in soccer or other sports.
Found this awesome recent podcast with the legendary FM Nick Ryan on The Marathon Podcast . A fun and very interesting listen.