ok, so you're saying parents complained about kids getting injured? running while injured?
dispassionately, worth acknowledging that when you defend as perfect and beyond reproach someone... while admitting you don't know the accusation or evidence
you realize, your credibility as impartial is totally shot.
let's see the evidence, and know the actual accusation!
No dog in the fight, but how often does this type of story come up and then the team absolutely plummets after? It's like the parents want their kids to be on crappy teams. If you don't like the coaching, start a club team. Nobody is required to be a part of a high school team. If a coach did something illegal that's one thing, if it's "he was mean and told me I wasn't being a team player" then it's just sour grapes. And honestly, some times it is just the kid not being a team player. So many parents and athletes want to participate on their own terms.
In my case, on a team of 60 (120 parents + the divorced remarried) 2 families (two single mothers) who's daughters didn't put in much effort but wanted to be among the top runners complained.
It wasn't how good the team was it was their daughter's position on the team.
Bill Aris is one of the finest, most generous, intelligent people you will ever meet. His coaching record speaks for itself. To be in this man's presence is to be awed by his ability to share his gifts with others and elevate those willing to enhance their lives.
ok, so you're saying parents complained about kids getting injured? running while injured?
dispassionately, worth acknowledging that when you defend as perfect and beyond reproach someone... while admitting you don't know the accusation or evidence
you realize, your credibility as impartial is totally shot.
let's see the evidence, and know the actual accusation!
You shared the article from an obscure CNY news site hours after it was posted. 100% of your posts on letsrun are trashing Bill and FM. You clearly have an agenda. Why dont YOU be transparent and share why you're pumping this like it's a TMZ story.
Once again, to play devil's advocate, this was a voluntary sport. I'd laugh at a parent that let their kids run for 4-6 years under Aris then come back and say he was a bad guy. What does that make them for allowing him to remain an influence? I wish I had a coach in high school that pushed my limits more. And who cares about if they became pros? How many kids actually become pros? 0.001% if that?
ok, so you're saying parents complained about kids getting injured? running while injured?
dispassionately, worth acknowledging that when you defend as perfect and beyond reproach someone... while admitting you don't know the accusation or evidence
you realize, your credibility as impartial is totally shot.
let's see the evidence, and know the actual accusation!
You shared the article from an obscure CNY news site hours after it was posted. 100% of your posts on letsrun are trashing Bill and FM. You clearly have an agenda. Why dont YOU be transparent and share why you're pumping this like it's a TMZ story.
that's a fun deflection.
I've posted on FM because I grew up there and ran at FM. That's no secret.
this isn't about me. but if you're obsessed with me, I'll take that as a compliment :)
this is about accusations against bill. that somehow we still don't actually have, but the full throated bill-defense-machine is out here...
OBill Aris is well known to have completely manipulated the narrative around these families and their children’s stories. I’d be very careful what you say about families and girls, without knowing the facts. The school does in fact have documentation of the scenarios you are referring to, and it doesn’t align with what you are spreading.
Taking this further, if the coach is so notorious for being a monster, and there is such a lengthy history of abuse with proof of awful behavior, forced running through injury, etc and so forth (as was the case in the Saratoga ban), then I would be crapping my pants as an athletic director who oversaw all of these alleged abuses and allegedly did nothing about it. OR, this is a witch hunt.
Taking this further, if the coach is so notorious for being a monster, and there is such a lengthy history of abuse with proof of awful behavior, forced running through injury, etc and so forth (as was the case in the Saratoga ban), then I would be crapping my pants as an athletic director who oversaw all of these alleged abuses and allegedly did nothing about it. OR, this is a witch hunt.
such an interesting false comparison!
pretty sure this athletic director is relatively newish... compared to the previous one that was there for decades.
it also goes to this diverting blame to the AD. sure, they can be implicated in not intervening; but failing to intervene is not equivalent to any poor behavior on the part of the coach to begin with
also, calling something a witch hunt, before we even know the accusation is a fun thing to do... 'this election is rigged!'
None of this is surprising in the slightest to anyone who has spent any amount of time competing in or attending XC/Track meets in Section 3/Upstate NY in general. The guy is a psycho, and it was very easy to see the emotional abuse and manipulation that surrounded the program - particularly on the girls' side.
The physical trauma he created is obvious based on the lack of collegiate success from FM runners. For a school that produced national champion teams and dozens of individual state champs in one of the more competitive states in the country, they have had practically zero truly successful runners at the collegiate level. The ones I know of that did have some success all had to take time off before returning to the sport due to the mental and physical fatigue that had been imparted on them as teenagers.
My guess is that complaints like this had been rolling in for decades, but were easy to ignore when FM was consistently finishing top 5 in the nation at NXN. These complaints are harder to ignore with FM's current mediocracy
If this is true, then it again points to a complete failure on the administration for not intervening! With the rigid standards and response level to abuse claims at FM, it doesn't pass the smell test that administration knowingly did nothing and just let the terrible, awful no good Bill Aris continue his reign of terror on the humanity of FM students over the course of years. The AD at FM has been the same since the early 2010's. So we will see.
None of this is surprising in the slightest to anyone who has spent any amount of time competing in or attending XC/Track meets in Section 3/Upstate NY in general. The guy is a psycho, and it was very easy to see the emotional abuse and manipulation that surrounded the program - particularly on the girls' side.
The physical trauma he created is obvious based on the lack of collegiate success from FM runners. For a school that produced national champion teams and dozens of individual state champs in one of the more competitive states in the country, they have had practically zero truly successful runners at the collegiate level. The ones I know of that did have some success all had to take time off before returning to the sport due to the mental and physical fatigue that had been imparted on them as teenagers.
My guess is that complaints like this had been rolling in for decades, but were easy to ignore when FM was consistently finishing top 5 in the nation at NXN. These complaints are harder to ignore with FM's current mediocracy
ding ding ding
i still want whatever this is out in the open - good or bad.
If this is true, then it again points to a complete failure on the administration for not intervening! With the rigid standards and response level to abuse claims at FM, it doesn't pass the smell test that administration knowingly did nothing and just let the terrible, awful no good Bill Aris continue his reign of terror on the humanity of FM students over the course of years. The AD at FM has been the same since the early 2010's. So we will see.
and if the AD was more interested in looking good, and bill did bad things... the answer is then to blame them both, not this weird interpretation that bill did nothing wrong...
Not a smear campaign at all. Apparently there have been multiple accusations from multiple families over the last few years. The fact that the school suspended him shows that whatever this latest incident is, it was bad enough for FM to suspend him. Anyone familiar with this coach knows what he’s like and what he’s capable of. Sad that it has gotten this far and taken so long for the administration to do something, but these kids deserve better. it’s time to bring in someone new that will take the health and well-being of these athletes serious and not just look for a win.
In my case, on a team of 60 (120 parents + the divorced remarried) 2 families (two single mothers) who's daughters didn't put in much effort but wanted to be among the top runners complained.
It wasn't how good the team was it was their daughter's position on the team.
Yeah, I’ve seen a well respected coach with a long history of success “retire” in my area because of a handful of parents. It is sad and it does happen.
Suspending a coach with pay in response to allegations, be they true or false, is standard procedure in NYS. The coach is not presumed to be guilty whatsoever. The paid leave process protects the accusers AND the accused, as well as the privacy of all, while allegations are investigated. This happens all of the time in high school athletics, and in some cases the accusers are found to have accused in bad faith, not good faith.
FM boys team mostly consists of sophomore and under. It’s improving, though not as great as it used to be
For the FM girls program, the cupboard is pretty bare. They couldn’t qualify for states the last 2 years, and next year they will have a big drop off behind their top 3. They have about 10 girls on the team.
It is the investigation into the accusation that must come out. Anyone can accuse of anything at any time. It doesn't make it true. As much as it appears you want the accusation to be the ruling. "Find me the man, and I will find you the crime." - Joseph Stalin
It is the investigation into the accusation that must come out. Anyone can accuse of anything at any time. It doesn't make it true. As much as it appears you want the accusation to be the ruling. "Find me the man, and I will find you the crime." - Joseph Stalin
weird diversion
the investigation isn't the accusation, the investigation isn't the outcome.
accusation - nobody is telling... weird.. let it come out
invesigation - that's a process... let it happen
outcome & accountability - that's a responsibility to all...
again, the pre-emptive defense while alluding to it being a witch hunt and everyone else is to blame other than the victim bill... go read what I wrote much earilier; that's DARVO, and it's a boring old manipulation tactic