Kerr on LRC pod: Mile WR is harder than 1500 WR

Appeal to accomplishment is a logical fallacy.

Either Kerr is an idiot or he's disingenuous. He said that the mile is both the oldest and the hardest. Nobody in the world who has any idea what they're talking about thinks the mile WR is harder than the 1500 WR, and the 1500 WR is older. I suppose none of this matters because he has no chance of getting it.

I’ll push back a little bit. I think El Guerrouj is a little worse as the distance goes up above 1500m. There are rumors and people who have watched El Guerrouj run under 1:43 in training for 800m. I believe Salvitore Stitchmo can attest to that. I think the Mile would be easier for someone like Jakob who is clearly worse over 800m but superior over 3000m/5000m.

When will you guys stop doubting Kerr. Unless you're a 3:27 guy take a seat on the harsh criticism. He's speaking from experience we just watch lol.

I remember when he announced he'd go for the European record lots of lrc bashed him. Same with the 2 mile world record. 3:27 has to put you close to 3:43. He's the most successful 1500m runner of this era championships wise. If he doesn't get the record I'm sure he will be really close.

Keely came back from injury faster 👀👀

He has failed before after talking big, I remember he used to be called Mr. 3:27 in 2022 and while that aged poorly it still shows that he talks big but will come up short. Also, most sucessful? Hocker and Jakob would like a word lol.

That's an interesting rumor about what El G ran in the 800m during training, but I put more stock in his Olympic gold medal in the 5k. In that quote you shared re: his preference for the 1500m, he didn't say he thinks he's better at shorter distances; he mentioned racing the 1500m a lot and knowing it so well.

It makes sense to me that an athlete would feel more comfortable running the event they've done the most. This conversation reminds me of Sydney's interview last summer after she ran the 400m flat at Pre and was disappointed in her time. She was asked if it not running over hurdles almost feels foreign to her, and she said: "Correct. Yeah. I'm so used to feeling like, ok, get to this certain hurdle at this pace, and now I'm like, I don't know where I am, you know? So, it really is just different. But I'm learning and it's fun to learn and have this new challenge."

With more practice and racing, she got a lot better at it.

Familiarity with an event, or lack thereof, can make a big difference in how an athlete perceives and experiences that event.

A bit off topic but is the podcast missing in anyone else's Apple podcasts app? I saw it pop up when they released it for Supporter's Club members last week but it's gone from my feed now (but I didn't get last Friday's SC episode) and I never saw it as a regular podcast episode either. Am I missing something?

I think you've missed the biggest reason- the mile is a much more iconic and historically significant distance. That obviously appeals to Kerr from a legacy pov as he moves on from running and becomes a commentator/talking head etc in future years. Joining an exclusive list of GB miler WR holders that includes Bannister, Ovett, Coe and Cram is too good an opportunity to miss in his eyes.

Non-running fans know what a fast mile is and have heard of the 4 minute mile being a significant barrier. They will also probably be able to name a miler from history. Ask a random person on the street what a fast 1500m is and they won't have a clue. The mile is by far the more marketable distance for such an attempt.

all the top guys have run 343 eq.

and the new guys are on track for better.

the mile record is toast.

It's ironic because about a decade ago, Rojo tended to agree that the extra 109 meters makes a significant difference, particularly for the pure miler / 800 runner.

Kerr announced he’d go for the European record and ran 3:29.37.

3:27.79 x 1.08 = 3:44.42

Jakob has a better championship record:

JI - 4th, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, injured

JK - 6th, 3rd, 5th, 1st, 2nd, injured

This is it. The mile probably means more in GB than any other country due to Bannister, etc as you say (I was in the same room as him a year before he died and it felt a real honour). He'll have home advantage as well - the crowd will go nuts if it looks on.

I'd far rather Wightman got it though tbh.

No they have not. Guys, Kerr and the other "next guys" got towed for 1400+ meters at an OLYMPIC FINAL by a suicidal rabbit going solo @ WR pace. They still "only" ran 3:27. That's as good as they're going to get.

Did El G say anything about wave lights? I believe his exact quote was "The mile is completely different. If you're not strong physically and mentally, you cannot run it well".

Again, a lot of talk about how the 1500m is the harder event, but I've yet to see anyone post as to why. Seriously!, why is the 1500m more difficult than the mile? Anyone who's run a fast 1500m and a fast mile will tell you that the last 109m is brutal. I'm not buying all the "where you start", or "who cuts in" stuff. That's part of trying to run a WR, dealing with all the variables. I do believe the wave lights help, with them you don't need to be concerned with if you've gone out too fast or slow, although these guys know pace like the back of their hand, not having to think about it at all is a plus. Part of the appeal of running a WR is knowing how to exert just enough energy at the right time to achieve a fast time.

I'd like to see what some of the greatest 1500/Miler guys think which WR is harder. Cram, Coe, Aouita, El G (Mile), Kerr (Mile), Hocker, Nuguse, Jakob, etc... I will happily defer to the consensus of those guys.

IMHO, it's the Mile, and yes, I've run a few quick times in both, not WR pace, but fast enough to know and feel the difference.

I think Kerr has a good chance to make a run at it. I think the hype he creating is a good thing, being in the UK it heightens the drama and can be self motivating for him. Is he "over marketing" the event? Sure he is, as he should be, that's what sponsors look for, that's called entertainment and good business.

And it was (and still is) far less run as a distance at this level so it would stand to reason that it's more difficult to master the execution of the distance than the 1500m. But I think they are slightly different things where multiple things can be true at the same time - that the distance is harder to run because the guys just have less practice running it, and that apples to apples, the 1500m is a harder record (which it is) because of that exact same reason (they run it more therefore performances across the board comparatively are simply better because of it).

On the flipside the great John Walker said the opposite. He liked the mile/2000m distances more than the 1500m because his way of dissecting/approaching the distance was different. He liked the relative "linearity" of running 4 (or 5) laps (plus obviously the 9m at the start) in the mile, vs the 1500m where he didn't know whether to approach it as 300m at the start and then 3 laps, or 3 laps with a 300m at the end. But then again the mile was a much more common distance back in his era, certainly compared to today.

I'm calling it now- Wightman will be one of the pacers.

It's not about what is the tougher event - because whats the metric or measure of that? I'm not here to blow up the great El G's comment on the mile but you can't run a great 1500m (or 2000m, or 3000m) if you're not strong physically or mentally either. Right?

Sure if you have a 1500m PR of 4min00 and you try and run a mile going through 1500m in 4min00 then you are going to have a big problem. But that's why nobody does that. That's why when El G had already run 3.26.00* (or in the very least 3.26.45) he went through 1500m over 2 seconds slower en route to his 3.43.13

Either way what we are literally discussing in this thread which is the harder record - not the "tougher" event.

The 1500m record is harder primarily because the event is run so much more than the mile. I don't know the exact numbers but I would guess that for every run run at the elite level, there are either 3 or 4 elite 1500m's run. I mean look at Jakob - he has been so obsessed with the metric distance I can't remember one meet where the mile wasn't traditional (like Pre, London, Oslo) that he asked for the 1500 to be changed to the mile. In fact he once did the opposite when he asked for the Golden Mile at Bislett to be a 1500m (2023 when he ran 3.27.95).

Summary, both distances are incredibly hard to run at their respective WR levels, no distance easier or harder than the other. But the 1500m record is a better one and because of that more difficult to break.

I know and heard from the mouth of a very well respected 1500m runner/miler of that era that trained in Ifrane with Kadas group, that he saw El G run under 1:43 for 800m as a training TT where his pacers rotated in and out to help him record the time. And the guy who I heard say this is not the kind of guy who would make sh-t up, he just wasn't. I've never understood why the notion of El G being this fast over two laps (in a TT, not a race which adds so many other elements) is even remotely controversial considering he did run 3.26.12 (3.26.00) for 1500m and closed out a 3.34 Olympic final in 1.46.8 in his last ever 1500m when he was past his absolute peak in terms of straight out speed (his fastest time after the year 2002 was "only" 3.27.64). I mean if Steve Cram was comfortably under 1.43, El G wouldn't be? Heh?

Which getting back to you point, is why I believe(d) Jakob could have in either 2003 or 2004 (but especially '04 for obvious reasons) could have run 3.42.8/9 if he really focussed on it. 3.26.73 top end 1500m ability + 7.17 3000m ability - that points to being able to run 3.27.9/3.28.0 en route and run the 14.8/14.9 or so for the final 109m which all the top guys do/have done historically in blazing fast miles (Morceli 14.82, El G 14.92, Jakob 14.97)