I'm sure I missed something, but doesn't this mean that the NYC marathon becomes, de facto, a race devoid of top American marathoning talent, male and female?
I mean, I suppose Chuck Engle could run the trails early, towel off, and run a 2:49 later that morning.....
Two separate races on the same course. How will it look when the trials is won in a 2:12 and the ING marathon is won in 2:09. Here's the headline: Kenyan wins New York marathon. The third paragraph of the article will mention that 3 Americans qualified in an earlier race, but ran a slower time. I think the Central Park solution was the better plan, if publicity was really the goal.
au contraire wrote:
I'm sure I missed something, but doesn't this mean that the NYC marathon becomes, de facto, a race devoid of top American marathoning talent, male and female?
Only males will be absent--women's OT in the spring--Kastor has already committed to NYC.
It will take 18 months to find out if I'm right, but I doubt the headline will be about some foreigner. Remember, this is the USA; we don't like the World Cup because it actually involves the rest of the world.
jsquire wrote:
au contraire wrote:I'm sure I missed something, but doesn't this mean that the NYC marathon becomes, de facto, a race devoid of top American marathoning talent, male and female?
Only males will be absent--women's OT in the spring--Kastor has already committed to NYC.
It will take 18 months to find out if I'm right, but I doubt the headline will be about some foreigner. Remember, this is the USA; we don't like the World Cup because it actually involves the rest of the world.
When did Kastor commit to NY? Got a link?
Here's something new for you so you can find your own information - Google "news"
Uhh...I don't think that's even worth pointing out, as Kastor committed to the 2006 NYC Marathon, which doesn't really affect her potential participation in the 2007 NYC Marathon or 2008 Olympic Trials race.
Alan,
While I agree with everything else you said, I think Conover is a bad example. He was not your typical 2:18 guy. He was a 28 and change 10k runner and CIM was a hurricane that year.
BTW- 7 am in November in New York. That ought to be just like Beijing as far as weather is concerned. Great choice!
And Conover ran so great in the Olympics, so let's make sure more guys like him win the Trials.
I've got a problem with this 2:22 bashing, Trent Briney is a perfect example of this. Here's a 2:21 guy, has a break through day runs 2:12 for 4th. Probably would have done better than Dan Browne, doubling 10k/Marathon was a great idea Dan, so great you gracefully and honorably walked across the finish line.
My point is this, if life and running should have taught you anything it is: Life is a "Any given Sunday" situation.
Suppose, Meb, Culpepper, Dan Browne,Ritz, Brian Sell, or any other "favorite" has a bad day? Suppose Peter Gilmore, a Hanson boy, or some "2:22 guy" has a great day?
My bet is that some dark horse candidate comes out of the wood work and breaks the pack half way through, maybe one of those Moultan boys from Mass.
Anyways good luck to anyone who makes the race.
Of course, one could exaggerate in the other direction. Why not hold the Trials a month before the Olympics? Why not six weeks, etc? More substantively, I think we need to ask the question, what is the purpose of the Trials? I don't think it's for as many people to qualify for the Trials as possible. Rather, as I understand it, the purpose is to select the three "best" runners to run in the Olympics. Now, whether ten months before the Olympics is about the right amount of time to allow for a full preparation or too much time is surely a contentious matter. But that ten months is appropriate seems quite plausible. Furthermore, media and money are not inconsiderable matters and I don't believe they have to be the objects of cynicism. Sport at a high level requires both, and the NYRR Club has contributed a good piece of change to help advance long distance running in this country. And I guarantee that having the Trials in NY at the time of the regular marathon will garner vastly more coverage and thereby, one hopes, greater appreciation, more fans, etc., than if the race was to be held in, say, Akron. Finally, any decision carries some costs. That some will not be able to qualify whereas if the Trials were held in the Spring they would have been able to is unfortunate, but I don't see why such an appeal is determinative.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Why not hold the trials 2 years beforehand and give the guys 2 years to recover and prepare? Why not 3 years? If the trials was purely about the athletes it would be held in the spring, but it's more about media and money so is will be held in NYC.
Alan
why not have it in some obscure place, like birmingham, alabama that has zero media coverage? that way only uber track geeks will be the only people who will follow it live and they will have to do so via the internet. sticking it on the biggest stage in the united states is just such a stupid idea as non runners actually may follow the race.
i also have enjoyed the banter from 2:25 guys who are pissed that the window to qualify will be a little smaller. sorry to break the news to you but the olympic trials is strictly about picking the best 3 guys for the team. it's not about potentially having some rudy story. that's why there is a standard in the first place. if someone has a legitimate shot at making the team, running a 2:22 with 2 years' notice should not be an issue.
Fellow Trials mavens, need I remind you every marathon in America was eligible to submit a bid to host the Olympic Trials Marathon for men or women. Why do I point this out? So many here are offering alternatives to what's going to be announced on Thursday in Indy. Look, there were 4 bids and 4 bids only. It is NOT a backyard picnic to host one of these things. Bid packages were there for the asking and I'll bet more than a few were put off by the requirements. Bidding is not done in a vacuum & neither were the choices made w/out a solid, experienced cross-section of folks looking over the bids closely.
The Trials ought to be here, ought to held then, blah, blah. Four events bid. Bottom line. Would of, should of, could of ain't making it. Casts for the die were put out for bidding and now, after a spell sorting out the sponsorship difficulties, the bids are cast. Instead of finding fault w/the Trials selection process and/or choices, I'd suggest those in a position to do so, go after the Trials standards if not already in hand or set in motion a long term buildup to knock heads on Trials day!
Boy Wonder wrote:
This will be a great stage on which US marathoners can perform. I like the fact that it will be 9 months prior to the Olympic race which allows for ample recovery time and build-up. Now hopefully none of the top 3 then run a spring marathon.
Well, you could do that if it was done as a training run, or time trial.....(do not contradict me, i will make you look foolish...)
You are off by a year. Kastor is running NY this year. The trials are next year.
A decision maker in the process notified us that everything in our post isn't 100% correct. Perhaps the time is wrong but we have confidence in our source(s), but we'll find out on Thursday for sure.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:And I guarantee that having the Trials in NY at the time of the regular marathon will garner vastly more coverage and thereby, one hopes, greater appreciation, more fans, etc., than if the race was to be held in, say, Akron.
Prediction: The networks will give the same coverage they usually do. 10 minutes on the elite race of NY, added OT coverage totalling another 10 minutes and the majority of the condensed coverage will be amount to a NY tourism promo and clips of costume wearing jackasses in the open race.
If you think interest is going to rise nationally because it's being held in NY, you need to go soak your head.
[quote]scotth wrote:
Look, there were 4 bids and 4 bids only. [quote]
That is utter bull shit. You have your head so far up the asses of Latimer and Estes that you can't see the light. I read all bids. New York NEVER bid on the trials on anything but a criterium course held on a separate day from the ING New York Marathon. So obviously something other than the 4 bids was considered. This was not a submitted bid.
Prediction: The networks will give the same coverage they usually do. 10 minutes on the elite race of NY, added OT coverage totalling another 10 minutes and the majority of the condensed coverage will be amount to a NY tourism promo and clips of costume wearing jackasses in the open race.
I CAN'T BLAME THEM AS DRUG FUELED FRAUDS (EPO) HAVE DESTROYED THE CREDIBILITY OF THE SPORT......
Ah friend, let me see if I get this right: you're unhappy that the men will potentially be racing in front of more fans than have ever witnessed a Trials race combined?
What, if I might ask, do you care if it's on a crit or city course? Also, if you read the Trials bids, were you on the selection committee? If so, what's your name? Thanks.
Great job of shielding rather than defending your statement. Let me put it in the form of a question. Why was a fifth bid allowed in months after the deadline? And why was it granted to the same city that has been accused of receiving preferential treatment throughout the entire bid process? Feel free to ignore the corruption or even worse allow the end product to justify the corruption.
This is another great plan by New York. NY and Boston have convinced the idiots that all of these marathoners in town will come out and watch the trials. THEY WILL NOT. Now they are going to hold the event on the same course. I am sure that the morning before the TNT runners run their race they will come out and spectate the trials.