Cooper Lutkenhaus has a point

Yes, but NFHS only sanctions records made during in-season meets that they sanction. You can set a NFHS national record in dual meets, invites or state meets, etc., but you can't at the Nike, NB or Brooks meets. What most folks consider the true HS national records are the ones T&F News keeps.

OK, so just to clarify- Webb's mile record was set in the Prefontaine Classic Mile against pro's. Webb was a legit high school runner. Should that have counted?

I see your point and maybe it should be high school only fields.

His time should be counted as national high school records, but for a different reason he stated: he's a high schooler, of course his time counts, damn it! It's that simple really.

Please provide a link to their rule that states he is ineligible.

I think this is the crux of the issue. T&FN was the only 'organization' that kept HS records across states. It was their 'rule' and pretty cut and dry. Now that there are NIL opportunities for HS'ers, it is much murkier. Maybe their rules need to change with the times.

I don't think there is a link because we're just questioning whether it should be legal or not.

What was their rule?

He thinks he is ineligible and many of you seem to agree yet nobody has produced a statement from T&F News or a rule.

Pretty much every professional contract has performance terminology. Bonuses for some sort of a record. Deductions for not racing enough or not hitting certain thresholds. In football bonuses for playing a certain number of snaps or some stat threshold like number of receptions. None of this is allowed in an NIL contract, NIL can't be tied to performance.

NFHS record has to be in a NFHS sanction meet. I like this standard, but the records are obviously significantly weaker than what high schoolers have run in pro meets and other non-NFHS meets. There is a good purpose behind why certain meets are NFHS sanctioned and why others aren't, and there should be recognized records that are set within the NFHS standards.

Track and Field News recognizes high school records for marks set by non-pro high schoolers or kids otherwise still eligible to compete in NFHS meets, whether or not the meet itself was sanctioned by NFHS. This is also a reasonable set of records to keep, but I "care" about it less than the the NFHS records. If T&FN were to give up recognizing these records, no big deal.

If people think there should be a different standard than these two for what counts as a record, why doesn't another organization start recognizing high school records? This seems like an opportunity for another publication (letsrun?) to start "officially" recognizing high school records.

Where is the T&F news rule? I am curious how they define professional. If a kid gets an NIL deal worth $1M, is that okay? Seems odd since until recently, if a kid got a $10K deal with Nike, they would have been considered a pro.

The national high school track meets are not governed by NFHS. Do those times count as high school records under NFHS? Could Cooper compete in those meets?

I like this. A bit of a murky area if it’s a high school all-star meet with a pro pacer. Either way maybe just having a record for athletes 18 or younger and still attending high school works (or at least just graduated). Nobody in the US really likes the U20 distinction here which includes some 19 year olds but not others, and gets collegians into the mix. It works better internationally.

Cooper is the age group champ, and I’d say most people care more about that concept than HS competition records.

TAFNews doesn’t make the rules. They do have their own set of records/all-time marks. Other orgs only approve marks made in HS only competition, some see any kid who is a pro as ineligible (like Lutkenhaus). It’s a mess - I think the marks achieved by any HSer should be viewed as legit, no matter who they were competing against and no matter if they are a “pro”. If the kid is a legit HS student, then give his marks credit. Much of this is due to incredibly vain officials who want control while pretending to be concerned about the “integrity” of the sport. Hah!

Should HS records only be counted during the regular HS years . say Sept 1 till June 20. And should they only count in actual HS races?

And for relays - should they only count for actual HS teams - not teams that recruit all over the country and are basically all star teams. If you say that is fine - then how about counties putting together all star teams within their county and ne able to run them at Penn Relays and Nationals.

Take the NIL to get the both worlds like Arch Manning. Race high school and some pro meets like Sam Ruthe.

i actually agree with this standard, but it's not a standard that's been used. Webb in the mile, for starters. If webb's record counts, i think whatever cooper does should count.

this is why age group records are ultimately superior. Though they are dumb as well since somebody turning 18 in December can't get a U18 record for a performance 11 months prior to their birthday.

He 100% would of done NIL if Texas allowed it for High School. He didn't want to move (nor should he) to get a NIL deal instead of going Pro.