Inarguably? So even if runners don't get injured running lots of miles on roads, they can't disagree with you because you are the final arbiter of truth on the matter?
Yes. Just because someone doesnt get injured doesnt mean they are doing it right. when you run on soft surfaces not only is it less impactful on your legs so they dont get injured but they are also having to work a little harder compared to the easy bounceback of road running. So its a win-win. This is why the East African runners get injured less than the Western runners. Just because you are a braindead boomer who thinks we should still be doing things the way you did in the 80s to acheive your mile pr of 4:40 doesnt mean they arent educated. So yeah, soft surfaces are inarguably better than running on the road for training.
Why are Pros always running on the roads or hard surfaces (at least when we see them shooting videos)... These same people seem to be injured all the time.
Why not run on soft surfaces? Wood chips, grass, soft dirt, etc... Seems like a no brainer. What am I missing here?
this always perplexes me as well. Soft surfaces inarguably lead to fewer injuries and yet some people, even top pros, refuse to educate themselves on this...
Maybe the top pros have educated themselves and know something you don't.
Most of them are running road races so it makes sense. It's also can be hard to find public paths that aren't met with interruptions when going fast (imagine running low 5min or faster pace on a busy trail?) Not to mention getting on a track is tough unless you're affiliated with a university/school or have special access to a facility. Where I live you will die if you run on the road, no shoulders at all, but if I found a safe option then I'd go for it.
I completely disagree. I think people should run on soft surfaces when possible, but eventually it can make your legs soft and less responsive. Especially before races you should run on hard surface to toughen up the legs. Also its bad to goon before races so don't do that either
Isn't this some of the argument when related to supershoes? You don't feel the impact as much, so you should be able to recover better and actually train harder than? I thought there was plenty of research showing less impact means easier recovery (e.g. biking instead of running, etc)
Read somewhere that asphalt is technically softer than concrete sidewalks, so that may explain the literal road running. FWIW- my closest calls with cars have happened on sidewalk crossings where I was only not hit because I was in the road. Crosswalks are suggestions, these days.
As for pros: I could be wrong, but Cranny or some other American posted a training video on a 100% grass track. Looked gorgeous!
This may have changed recently, but unless it has there have been no studies showing that running on hard surfaces makes you more likely to get injured than running on soft ones does. My experiences and observations bear this out. I know there are many people who will say that they were always getting hurt when they ran on roads and need to stay on soft surfaces to stay healthy and that may be true for those people. But unless it's changed very recently there have been no longitudinal studies showing soft surfaces are less injury inducing than hard ones. Maybe someone here has found such a study.
It seemed to be orthodoxy 20 years ago that people should run on soft surfaces as much as possible. Of course, 20 years ago people on Letsrun were gluing Vibram outsoles to Kennedy XC spikes and using them as daily trainers, so perhaps the obsession with soft surfaces was directly related to the obsession with training in racing flats (or later "minimal shoes," once brands started producing them).
I don't really see the point of soft surfaces from an impact standpoint these days. If you are worried about impact, you can just run in the Glycerin Max or Megablast. To the extent that soft surfaces are a good thing from an injury prevention standpoint, it's probably because soft surfaces tend to be less uniformly flat, so slight variations in footstrike and stride patterns can help you avoid overuse injuries that might pop up when you consistently run with exactly the same movement pattern.
Why are Pros always running on the roads or hard surfaces (at least when we see them shooting videos)... These same people seem to be injured all the time.
Why not run on soft surfaces? Wood chips, grass, soft dirt, etc... Seems like a no brainer. What am I missing here?
I've run a few cyclists and runners off the road with my 18 wheeler. Good times
This may have changed recently, but unless it has there have been no studies showing that running on hard surfaces makes you more likely to get injured than running on soft ones does. My experiences and observations bear this out. I know there are many people who will say that they were always getting hurt when they ran on roads and need to stay on soft surfaces to stay healthy and that may be true for those people. But unless it's changed very recently there have been no longitudinal studies showing soft surfaces are less injury inducing than hard ones. Maybe someone here has found such a study.
It seemed to be orthodoxy 20 years ago that people should run on soft surfaces as much as possible. Of course, 20 years ago people on Letsrun were gluing Vibram outsoles to Kennedy XC spikes and using them as daily trainers, so perhaps the obsession with soft surfaces was directly related to the obsession with training in racing flats (or later "minimal shoes," once brands started producing them).
I don't really see the point of soft surfaces from an impact standpoint these days. If you are worried about impact, you can just run in the Glycerin Max or Megablast. To the extent that soft surfaces are a good thing from an injury prevention standpoint, it's probably because soft surfaces tend to be less uniformly flat, so slight variations in footstrike and stride patterns can help you avoid overuse injuries that might pop up when you consistently run with exactly the same movement pattern.
I agree that it's a pretty old school approach to worry too much about soft surfaces these days. It's probably a lot of the same people/coaches that are spending along time on "form work" when that too is a bit outdated. Some don't really change with the times and keep repeating what they were originally taught.
I’ve suffered from chronic achilles issues for 15 years and I’ve found there is still a big difference between running on roads compared to running on the trails, even when wearing the new shoe technology. Both during and after the run.
Uhhh brother, one day you will. You can be as sure as that as the sun rising up every morning.
You talkin to me? I'm already an old man. The reason why I never get injured is because I don't injure myself running. It's not difficult to figure out. But you people who get injured a lot, you keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over and thinking it's just bad luck.
This may have changed recently, but unless it has there have been no studies showing that running on hard surfaces makes you more likely to get injured than running on soft ones does. My experiences and observations bear this out. I know there are many people who will say that they were always getting hurt when they ran on roads and need to stay on soft surfaces to stay healthy and that may be true for those people. But unless it's changed very recently there have been no longitudinal studies showing soft surfaces are less injury inducing than hard ones. Maybe someone here has found such a study.
It seemed to be orthodoxy 20 years ago that people should run on soft surfaces as much as possible. Of course, 20 years ago people on Letsrun were gluing Vibram outsoles to Kennedy XC spikes and using them as daily trainers, so perhaps the obsession with soft surfaces was directly related to the obsession with training in racing flats (or later "minimal shoes," once brands started producing them).
I don't really see the point of soft surfaces from an impact standpoint these days. If you are worried about impact, you can just run in the Glycerin Max or Megablast. To the extent that soft surfaces are a good thing from an injury prevention standpoint, it's probably because soft surfaces tend to be less uniformly flat, so slight variations in footstrike and stride patterns can help you avoid overuse injuries that might pop up when you consistently run with exactly the same movement pattern.
What I'm waiting to see is the chronic orthopedic injuries to ankles, fascia, achilles from people cranking around on these max stack boing foam monstrosities, whether on trails or road. Every day I see runners bounding along with fat stacks on their feet, super pronating so badly it makes me cringe. We all see the elites super pronating in the big races, but they are, well, elite, so maybe they're more able to absorb the awfulness of those strides.
In ten years there's going to be a rash of 'former' recreational runners who now need scopes of their ankles, suffer from messed up achilles insertions and can't figure out why they can't get rid of PF.
The smart runners are still doing most of their mileage in typical road training shoes from before the Maxi Stack Revolution of Super Foam Boingness began.
What I'm waiting to see is the chronic orthopedic injuries to ankles, fascia, achilles from people cranking around on these max stack boing foam monstrosities, whether on trails or road. Every day I see runners bounding along with fat stacks on their feet, super pronating so badly it makes me cringe. We all see the elites super pronating in the big races, but they are, well, elite, so maybe they're more able to absorb the awfulness of those strides.
In ten years there's going to be a rash of 'former' recreational runners who now need scopes of their ankles, suffer from messed up achilles insertions and can't figure out why they can't get rid of PF.
The smart runners are still doing most of their mileage in typical road training shoes from before the Maxi Stack Revolution of Super Foam Boingness began.
Pronation is normal. The faster you run, the more you pronate. And don't you think that this happens more off road?
You sound like a slow runner who doesn't do any serious training.
When you run on softer surfaces your body adapts and you hit the ground with a stiffer leg to stabilise yourself. Therefore, the difference between running on soft vs. hard surfaces is minimal from an injury prevention standpoint.
In fact, the reduced stability on soft surfaces may actually increase the risk of particular types of overuse injuries e.g. tendon and soft tissue related problems, etc.
There's also these new things that people wear on their feet that place ridiculous amounts of foam between a person and the ground.
I completely disagree. I think people should run on soft surfaces when possible, but eventually it can make your legs soft and less responsive. Especially before races you should run on hard surface to toughen up the legs. Also its bad to goon before races so don't do that either
Goon? OK, I won't beat anyone up before our local 5K.
Why are Pros always running on the roads or hard surfaces (at least when we see them shooting videos)... These same people seem to be injured all the time.
Why not run on soft surfaces? Wood chips, grass, soft dirt, etc... Seems like a no brainer. What am I missing here?
In my best years I found a long horse trail around a state park that I did most of my running on. I also started having trouble with my legs going dead in the second half of marathons. Eventually I decided the problem was that all that soft surface running wasn't preparing my legs for a long race on a road. So I started running on roads most of the time and the problem went away. It didn't lead to any injury troubles.
On top of that, not everyone has wood chips or soft dirt handy. If I wanted to run on something like that I'd have had no idea where I'd have done it for most of my life. Doing it now requires a bit of a drive. Grass is pretty handy for everyone if you're willing to run multiple laps around something like a soccer field. But for most of us running on a road is the handiest venue. And if injuries are an issue running on soft surfaces MAY help but that is far from given.
I have observed the same. Until last year I did all my long reps on dirt roads. This year I have trained mostly on the roads and on the track. I am feeling better than ever injury wise. Soft surfaces arent always better to prevent injuries
It seemed to be orthodoxy 20 years ago that people should run on soft surfaces as much as possible. Of course, 20 years ago people on Letsrun were gluing Vibram outsoles to Kennedy XC spikes and using them as daily trainers, so perhaps the obsession with soft surfaces was directly related to the obsession with training in racing flats (or later "minimal shoes," once brands started producing them).
I don't really see the point of soft surfaces from an impact standpoint these days. If you are worried about impact, you can just run in the Glycerin Max or Megablast. To the extent that soft surfaces are a good thing from an injury prevention standpoint, it's probably because soft surfaces tend to be less uniformly flat, so slight variations in footstrike and stride patterns can help you avoid overuse injuries that might pop up when you consistently run with exactly the same movement pattern.
What I'm waiting to see is the chronic orthopedic injuries to ankles, fascia, achilles from people cranking around on these max stack boing foam monstrosities, whether on trails or road. Every day I see runners bounding along with fat stacks on their feet, super pronating so badly it makes me cringe. We all see the elites super pronating in the big races, but they are, well, elite, so maybe they're more able to absorb the awfulness of those strides.
In ten years there's going to be a rash of 'former' recreational runners who now need scopes of their ankles, suffer from messed up achilles insertions and can't figure out why they can't get rid of PF.
The smart runners are still doing most of their mileage in typical road training shoes from before the Maxi Stack Revolution of Super Foam Boingness began.
Good luck trying to find "a typical road training shoe before the maxi stack revolution". Even the Pegasus 41 has a 37 mm heel stack.