Anyone ever used Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning Book?

Nice post kent. Thank you.

I'm with Another Guest on this one. For those of us that work full time, it does not always pay to wake up early just to run 4 miles, especially if the day calls for 10 miles total. Pfitzinger also says that it a person should not do a second run in a day unless it is for a minimum of 25 minutes. A 4 mile run only takes about 26 minutes!

Yeah dude, you're better off doing a single 10 miler.

Pfitz program wrote:

For those of us that work full time

Man are you full of shit. I've got news for you, a lot of people around here are working full time jobs and have families and still don't post lame excuses like this.

S..... wrote:

Pfitz program wrote:

For those of us that work full time

Man are you full of shit. I've got news for you, a lot of people around here are working full time jobs and have families and still don't post lame excuses like this.

Easy there, S. He's talking about having to get up something like 30, 40 minutes earlier than usual not once, but TWICE a week, just for the sake of setting a marathon PB. We knew there were sacrifices associated with the distance, but sometimes, enough is enough!

Imagine all that extra effort "dude". 40 minutes!!!!!

S.....,,,,, wrote:

Imagine all that extra effort "dude". 40 minutes!!!!!

Actually, although he has to get up 40 minutes earlier, it's only 26 minutes of effort, because our guy here does his shake-out runs at 6:30 pace.

Like I posted above, I have not missed a single mile, or workout of the 18/70 plan. However, I live mile from work and without that and the ablilty to run many of my runs at lunch (long lunch) I'd never have gotten all my runs in. I have a wife and daughter and other hobbies and it would have been 100% impossible to accomplish. Nothing better than a nice 15 mile run during lunch.

Used Pfitz's program 3 years ago. The second long run (his medium-long run) of the week KICKED MY ASS! It really helped my strength but also wore me out. I obviously ran my long runs a little too fast. I really tried to stick to the distances and paces, rather than using good old common sense sometimes.

I think the general layout was really good for me, but I should have done a more Lydiard-like approach with respect to pace - go by feel rather than stick to the watch. That's my plan for the next time.

I'm planning to use the 55 mpw plan for a spring marathon. Although I've done that much mileage consistantly before, I'm a little concerned that it's condensed into 5 days. Two days a week off seems excessive and I really hate cross-training. If cross-training will somehow miraculously make me a better runner I'll do it, but would it be alright to run an easy 5 miler on one "off" day and rest the other day? The little bit of extra mileage would be no problem unless there's some compelling reason that I'm not aware of to not run either day.

I get up at 5:30 each morning because of the time needed to commute to work and the shift that i have to cover. I run in the evenings. like hell would i get up before 5 just to run a few miles. That being said, give the guy a break. Obviously some of the people here have schedules that are more flexible than others.

The issue is whether or not the body recovers more quickly from a recovery run of 10 miles vs. 2 recovery runs that total 10 miles. I'm opting for the former because I believe that pace on recovery days is the critcal factor. If a recovery day calls for 10 miles, then I'd be doing it in a single run. If a recovery day calls for 14 miles, then I can see the need to break it into two runs. Obviously it all depends on one's weekly mileage.

In Chapter 5, Supplemental Training, Pfitzinger says that you should do two runs if you exceed 8 miles on a recovery day.

a real working man wrote:

I get up at 5:30 each morning because of the time needed to commute to work and the shift that i have to cover. I run in the evenings. like hell would i get up before 5 just to run a few miles. That being said, give the guy a break. Obviously some of the people here have schedules that are more flexible than others.

You get to decide what's best for YOU and nobody here has the right to tell you that you're wrong about that decision. If you've decided that is the right job for you, you know the schedule sux for running twice a day and you have to decide if you'll get up at an un-godly hour to run. If you decide NOT to get up at that hour, well, best of luck to you in your running. But it's a choice you've made ... and you're the one who lives with it.

Kent,

I don't agree with your opinion that "10 miles in one run is not a recovery, it's a workout". I think it's all relative to your present fitness. For a lot of people 10 miles might be considered a workout, but for someone like Rob DeCastella (sp?) who ran 2 runs of 10 miles on his 3 recovery days each week 10 miles was obviously not difficult at all. I have also read Canova's comments of runners going out for 3 hour recovery runs between their workout days (the important thing being the intensity of recovery runs not the length). The most important thing about recovery days is that they feel like recovery days TO YOU. That said, if you do have a set mileage that you want to complete on a certain day I believe it is easier if you split that mileage into 2 runs. However, if you are compromising a solid sleep (even more important for recovery in my opinion) I would wait until the evening and just run that mileage in a single run. Of course, if you can get 8-10 hours sleep a night and also do 2 recovery runs then even better!

I'll give you that it's possible, but it's the exception, not the rule. We used to do 16-20 mi on Sat, followed by an easy 8-10 on Sunday, and yes, it was easy. But I made a lot of other mistakes in my running career, too. :o) ... As long as you're running something, it's just a matter of degrees as to what is good, better, or best. That's why there are lots of different training programs, and more than one of them works. Personally, I like a mix of Lydiard, Pfitz, Malmo (Summer of), McMillian (some fast finish long runs), and my own "feel" for it, but I've only coached one runner (and he beat his goal by 5 minutes).