Ed Eyestone: "if we have athletes that are testing positive from certain systems, those managers should also be disqualified"

Disqualify ED then!

What's missing from this is the attention that should be given of the unprecendented legacy Ed has created. Who else has created so many Olympic marathoners? So many record breakers? So many champions?

This is how you say "Get off my lawn!" in professional runner.

I coach an athlete that competes for another country. This past weekend they were competing in a race and the race organizer had assigned them a room with another elite athlete which is common. However, that athlete had been previously banned for two years so the athlete that I coach told the race director that they would prefer not to share a room with the previously banned athlete. The race director understood and that was that.

Clean athletes, clean coaches and clean agents have more power than they realize in our sport because they compete as individuals. If they refuse to compete against questionable people then it forces the meet / race directors to chose a side and stick with it.

What's pathetic is how many of these world major winners, Olympic or World Champ medalists get banned and yet the race / meet Directors keep bringing in more athletes from the same training camps, agents, etc. It just looks bad for the race having former winners banned. It turns the sport into a joke.

The reality is that 95% of the people participating don't care or remember who wins unless they are a local person or maybe from their home country. If the Chicago marathon did not pay a single dime in appearance fees or travel or rooms, etc. and just had US only prize money then you would still have a successful race and someone would win. Same with New York or Boston.

As a big Boston sports fan Jon, I'm sure you and Dave Portnoy will have a lot in common and Portnoy I think had a good take (in terms of essence) of how to curb this epidemic currently plaguing football which of course are players dropping just before the goal line for whatever motivations. Write in their contracts if they do it's a million dollar fine. As he said, "guarantee nobody will do it then". And even though that wouldn't practically happen for a number of reasons which all start with the NFLPA, what he is saying tests the concept of "incentive to vs incentive not to".

The IAAF/WA tried this "friendly" approach of the two and even four year ban, presumably with under a "everyone deserves a second chance" narrative - but it's not working. The incentive to dope for athletes of certain nations is still worth it for a variety of reasons and the issue that is "incentive" and "disincentive" factors sit on a wide spectrum depending on where you are from, the culture in society there - so many things.

So dealing with the athletes is the easy part - you can ban them for life, but the problem still remains, for some of these athletes the incentive to cheat and even get away with it for one race is worth it vs a life ban. Take Chepng'etich. She didn't test positive in Chicago - every cent she made from that race she keeps and she also keeps the WR. Even if she was banned for life I would argue that made it worth it for her. On an athlete level you would have to go as far as nullifying all performances in a career and then then more importantly going after money, but I don't know how realistic that is (example if an athlete says "not paying it back" who is filing legal action under what jurisdiction?).

The agents and coaches are the most effective means to make a meaningful change, but also hardest part. It's the only way Rosa (and he's not the only one btw) has gotten away with the systematic doping of athletes for years. These guys run it like drug dealers on the streets run their enterprises. They make the decisions, call the shots, have the connects - but there are always so many degrees of separation at play they can never be directly pinned - modern day Marlo Stanfields.

I'll say this, World Athletics has done an awesome job with the AIU informant system tracking athletes. It's the only way a lot of these top athletes are caught - the only way. But they need to have this rolling on coaches and agents. I get it, it's not cheap and not easy and they only have so much budget for this but I would personally be fine with athletes getting away with cheating for a few years (because they have historically anyway) if that resulted in finding enough juice to ban these guys (Rosa et al) immediately from the sport and make it clear that moving forwards if there is even a suggestion that people are still working with them on any level, they are immediately gone too, no explanation needed. I think then you slowly see a change that will benefit the sport big time in the future vs token gestures that are helping it now.

What if instead of life time or retroactive or coaches or managers bans, if you test positive you don't get banned at all.

But all athletes, coaches and managers associated with an athlete, maybe even including "team" members, of the athlete that tests positive, from that point forward, the only way any of that large group of associated people can be involved in an event is for them to pay to have their athlete tested as though they won the Olympics and maybe a little more to test those who haven't been caught yet

You could make them all agree and sign to participate. Then instead of the meets spending more and more to keep up with the dopers, the dopers and the people who don't turn them in would be paying to deal with the problem.

My guess is someone on hear could work out the details better than I can.

Given you guys have consulted Ross Tucker's viewpoint before, why not ask him to update his pieces explaining why lifetime bans won't work?

sportsscientists.com

Lifetime bans for drug cheats?

Should dopers be banned for life? Or is two years enough? Yesterday, we looked at , disgraced sprinter from Britain who served a two year suspension for his use of the designer steroid THG and who …

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sportsscientists.com

The lifetime ban for doping: Debate continued

So as expected, CAS today overturned the BOA policy of issuing a lifetime ban for any athlete who has served a doping ban longer than six months. This is hardly unexpected, and is a decision that p…

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Sports Integrity Initiative wrote a number of similar articles raising some of the same issues, and highlighting what is wrong with the current system created by WADA:

"But for many athletes, anti-doping just doesn’t exist until it happens to them. Most athletes support life bans until they discover that you can 'test positive' due (to) contaminated food, water, or even for kissing another person."

sportsintegrityinitiative.com

Why life bans for doping will not work - Sports Integrity Initiative

Andy Brown

On Sunday, Justin Gatlin was booed as he received his gold medal following his victory in the 100m final at the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) London 2017 World Championships on Saturday. The reason...

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sportsintegrityinitiative.com

US pro sport sanction issue highlights WADA politics - Sports Integrity Initiative

Andy Brown

A two game suspension reportedly issued to Luke Gifford of Dallas Cowboys has once again highlighted differences between the World Anti-Doping Code and the anti-doping programmes of the US professional leagues. The argument t...

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Ed want's the gillotine for everything. not good. you know what happened to ropspierre?

you will have everyone on edge, with the rare actual contamination issue, rec drug at party mishap.

4 years in half a career, enough, and take back earnings from future events as a fine on top.

and ban the promoter and coaches, in that case, say with 2 athletes testing positive,

and countries that have say 100 athletes banned in an olympic cycle, ban that country.

ban kenya now, these jokers threw the book at a silly teen as a scape goat, and should be punished for this pathetic cannard.

ban kenya for 4 years.

Tucker:

Ha haha, he described Drug Cheat Houlihan to a T, in 2008! (only she used instagram, not wiki, and a burrito, not a vanishing twin). Comedy Gold, I laughed so hard.

It is true that dopers are very good at mimicking innocent athletes. By these actions alone, we can conclude the athlete is either innocent, or acting innocent. Without more information, the conclusion is ambiguous and inconclusive.

But Ross tells us that the anti-doping science is currently lacking, with many potential sources for false positives, or other lab errors. Increasing the scientific reliability would eliminate the need for such subjective, if not biased, assessment of the athletes' responses, that are so popular among the unlearned masses.

Without considering Houlihan's responses, in Houlihan's favor are the WADA Lab guidelines which explicitly warn the WADA Labs that her results could be endogenous (i.e. not doping), and the CIR test confounded, therefore recommending further testing to increase the scientific reliability.

i am probably a hard liner of sorts.

that said, i would not be banning people for recreational drugs that have nothing to do with nothing, except the obvious, high on cocaine the day of, trace cannabis, would not be a thing.

with King Ed, and taking his approach to the worst extreme, King Ed athlete say testing for trace rec drugs, that say came from a fruit punch at a party in trace amounts, and now Ed is banned for life from coaching.

so

the obvious dopers, 5 standard deviations above normal, for actual peds that do something.

ban them for a cycle along with coach and agent, where coach and agent need a couple of athletes busted because you can sign on a new dude or madame, who may not be cheaters, just not know anything, down the vitamins that their friends are downing. the lovely ignorance of youth type thing.

we are talking about practical and sendible.

not this potential gilotine for a mistiminor.

Mormons don't need burritos - they have special underwear.

He should check his own Mantzes first for drugs. He is himself a dirty coach with dirty athltes. That Casey Clinger failed at chicago doesn't mean Mantz is clean.

Mormons is a false religion with false teachings. They actually endorse polyandry and polygamy. Do you think such a religion doesn't tempt Mantz and Casey to take drugs? Heck if I can sleep with all women I can surely sleep with all drugs.

I don't trust Ed over Salazar or Schumacher. I would more likely trust Gibby and Miltenberg or Brosnan. Ed's athletes are performing strangely. I analyzed the biomechanics of Mantz since 2015. He has no talent for this sport, he is not built for it, he can't run like a gazelle or antelop, during the drone view of the race he was the only one whose shoulders rotated more than 15 degrees with each stride. El G never rotated his shoulders more than 5 degrees and he was running at speeds much faster. Bekele as well.

A runner like Mantz should never have been allowed to progress in the sport. Should have been culled.

longjackss? Full of spelling and grammar errors.

Testing will never be accurate enough. It's too expensive, too tedious and time consuming to make it pico accurate. If you desire the reliability and accuracy you so wish, it's easy to say but nobody is willing to pay for it. Currently they use mass spectroscopy but that doesn't differentiate endogenous. Instead we need to use quantum entanglement or as Nikola Tesla says "FREQUENCY BASED, VIBRATION-BASED" to know it comes from your body.

It can be done, wirelessly and digitally like they do for directed energy weapons. Tester makes a phone call to athlete and within first 10s athletes entire bio-wave-algorithm is recorded and logged. If there is extraneous EPO it will instantly show up on the frequency meter because endogenous EPO is entangled differently in it's quantum spin state than synthetic ones. It can be done. it's being done covertly now for targeted individuals. Just need to petition the CIA to release the technology to WADA. Just pay for it, get the money.