A question of form

Jakob has a forward lean, as you say. He doesn't really look that fluid to me and doesn't have a significant change of gear, which means he doesn't engender excitement with a sudden explosive change of pace. He's more a grinder - but a very good one at his peak. Hocker has the change of gear but it is baffling to see someone who doesn't look either graceful or powerful cut through the field at the end of the race as he does. It is though he has been sitting on his a*se till the last 80 metres. Kerr has good form - a superb stride - but now we see he is injury prone. He won't fulfil that talent.

Kipketer and Rudisha were a couple of the most impressive runners I've ever seen. Incredible smooth strides. They made those behind them look utterly mortal.

Of the "little guys", Geb and Bekele always looked good.

Absurd. I've observed his tactics for years. He's not shining a light on darked corners. He's hiding behind the cloak of anonymity to cast aspersions on public figures. It's cowardly, pathetic, and disgusting.

Usually his "analysis" is merely "that person is good, therefore that person is doping." He is rarely aware of context and often fixates on results. Oh, and there's a weird disturbing pattern where he thinks Brits and Kiwis are clean but nobody else. He clearly has an anti-American bias.

There is no meaningful dialogue with him because HE shuts down dialogue by refusing to even consider alternative explanations for why an athlete is good. He makes up his mind before posting and isn't open to other perspectives.

He doesn't respect the topics of threads. No matter what a thread is about, if the subject is one of his targets, he will try to make the thread about doping. He is a habitual thread derailer.

He often repeats the same "arguments" over and over again. He doesn't really say anything insightful or new; he just finds different words to accuse someone of doping.

He often insults other posters.

He rarely has anything complimentary to say about current athletes. It's generally criticism and accusations.

He thinks he's shining a light on dark corners, but the reality is he's only exposing himself as a curmudgeon. He's the proverbial old man yelling at the clouds.

How could I have left out Bol? She makes it look unbelievably easy.

And one of my true fans turns up. You know, the kind that simply cannot ignore what I say. But I'm sure he felt better to get that off his chest.

But everything he wrote is true. And now reply witj the usual narcissistic comeback. Go on.

Form: Kiplimo, Wightman, Sawe, Aregawi. But you don't follow the sport, how would you know?

To address the OP's point, if you watch a half or marathon before the elites get tired, most (not all) of the top East Africans have very similar form from the waist down. The reason you might think they vary a lot is that you're looking at the upper body movement differences.

The upper body variation is more noticeable is mostly in the arm swing and to a lesser degree, the torso. Some have a fixed elbow, some increase the elbow bend or even add flip at the front movement. Some end up with hand relatively high and others with the hands much lower on the front swing. But even in arm swing, they universally tend to get the elbow very far back on the back swing and many get the upper arm almost horizontal.

The women vary a lot more in upper and lower body movement. Some of the elite East African women barely move their arms at all... tucking their arms in to their chest on the front swing and moving their hands only a few inches with each arm swing. These women typically have a noticeable shoulder rocking movement with each stride. I've often wondered while watching a marathon on TV, "How can they run so fast with such awful form?"

Physiologically, I think it has to do with longer legs vs torso, very little leg mass, and very low weight. This also allows them to put in high training miles with "poor" form without getting injured.

Now, if you watch a marathon over the last few miles, you're going to see more break-down of form in men and women as some runners struggle to stay with the leaders.

Interestingly detailed and perceptive observations. You are effectively making a distinction between road runners and track athletes. As I have a long memory I saw some of the difference with Abebe Bikila in '64. He was utter economy of movement - no long stride, no high knee-lift and very little upper body movement - he simply glided. Power, drive and speed weren't in the equation - they weren't needed. And then to see him finish with some calisthenics at the end of an Olympic final in which he had destroyed his competition - the stuff of legend. But, strangely, still slower than the top women today.

What you don't realise about the discussion of doping on these threads is that everything must be the result of speculation in the absence of a confirmed doping violation. Since it is known that most dopers aren't caught then every allegation of doping is possibly true. You simply cannot cope with that.

Prefointaine had a VO2 max of 84.4 ml/kg... when you have a VO2 that high... you can afford to lumber.

Yes, your generation was inferior.

4th. That's where lumbering gets you.

They weren't on what yours is. A generation of cheats.

4th best in the world. Were you ever 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the world at your job? No. That's where being a crap human gets you.

Poor cry baby. Cry some more.

I'm sure Pre wasn't very happy with 4th. I'm clearly the most hated poster here so that's a distinction I can proudly own. Your response is my reward.

Cheat some more.

It's probably because highschool coaches are too afraid to criticise a young person's form in case they get banned for child bullying.

If being a villain on an online message board gives you pride, that says a lot about how little you've achieved in life.

It reminds me of Ingy is 2019 5000m - leading at 300m to go, then comes 5th, fading the last 100m. Somewhat similar to Pre - got too excited the last 400m, then had nothing the last 100m. Jakob got to learn from that experience for future World/Olympic races, Pre didn't as there wasn't another World (in his case Olympic) championship before he died. So a tactical error.