Josh Hoey was not tested ad USADA even once in 2022-2024, see the link. Would be have been tested anywhere else? Internationally? WADA? AIU?
Athlete Test History | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)
Honestly, if he was not tested by anyone in those years, and comes out flying first thing in 2025... It does smell bad.
Most shocked wrote:
Josh Hoey was not tested ad USADA even once in 2022-2024, see the link. Would be have been tested anywhere else? Internationally? WADA? AIU?
Athlete Test History | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)Honestly, if he was not tested by anyone in those years, and comes out flying first thing in 2025... It does smell bad.
Oops, I am not able to link. But search for "USADA athlete test history" on google and search his name.
I've been asking the question if Hoey is doping, why now? I can imagine there's an immense amount of pressure to get results when your whole family poured time, energy, and money into your running career, but why this season specifically? For example, why not last year in time for the Olympics?
IT's obviously really easy to be suspiscous of huge jumps in performance, but I'm not sure one way or the other on Hoey. It is definitely a different path he's taken, endless resources yet stagnation for years until now. He was completely fatigued with Coach #3, Centrowitz. Then with Coach #4, Nohilly at Empire Elite, Hoey was the one pushing harder than necessary, and Coach #5 was an apparently short term but very intense solution to get healthy with a coach who isn't specialized in the 800?
Multiple coaches said he has the talent to run faster than 1:47, but it sure did take a long time to get there. It sounds like it's also taken a lot of time to get the mental side of things right. I wonder how his dad was supporting him when he was depressed. In some ways this profile has left me with more questions about Hoey than answers, but I'll be curious to see how the outdoor season goes for him.
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After reading the article, he's almost certainly doping.
A uber rich dad who is desperate for his son to succeed. A trust fund kid who is "depressed" and wants to be great. The 5 coaches, building tracks, buying Centro a home, etc. The fact Rinaldi is based far away.
It all screams: doped to the gills.
hoboy wrote:
I've been asking the question if Hoey is doping, why now? I can imagine there's an immense amount of pressure to get results when your whole family poured time, energy, and money into your running career, but why this season specifically? For example, why not last year in time for the Olympics?
IT's obviously really easy to be suspiscous of huge jumps in performance, but I'm not sure one way or the other on Hoey. It is definitely a different path he's taken, endless resources yet stagnation for years until now. He was completely fatigued with Coach #3, Centrowitz. Then with Coach #4, Nohilly at Empire Elite, Hoey was the one pushing harder than necessary, and Coach #5 was an apparently short term but very intense solution to get healthy with a coach who isn't specialized in the 800?
Multiple coaches said he has the talent to run faster than 1:47, but it sure did take a long time to get there. It sounds like it's also taken a lot of time to get the mental side of things right. I wonder how his dad was supporting him when he was depressed. In some ways this profile has left me with more questions about Hoey than answers, but I'll be curious to see how the outdoor season goes for him.
“Why not last year in time for the Olympics”
Last year his pb dropped from 1:47.26 to 1:43.80 and he was 0.15 seconds off the Olympic team. Seems like they just barely mistimed it.
Jrb212 wrote:
Great write up. Full disclosure I only read part one, but Hoey's journey has been... interesting... Some of my favorite tidbits:
- Son of an incredibly successful financial advisor who has "poured millions" into his son's track careers
- Built a private track and private living quarters including sauna, weight room, cold tub, etc.
- BOUGHT A HOUSE for Matt Centrowitz Sr. so that he would move to PA to coach them
- Five coaches in five years, not all sounded like amicable separations either
- In reference to his younger brother skipping college: "Fran taught the boys early on that it is worth it to take risks in life". Is it a risk when you have a super-wealthy father who let's you work at his investment firm with no college degree?
His Dad almost reminds me of Gjert in a way. Super overbearing father who is unhealthily obsessed with his sons' success. I hate to be the guy to hate on someone just for having rich parents, but it doesn't exactly make me want to root for him.
Curious what others thought.
Yes, and re: Hoey's advantages courtesy of his dad, don't forget this one: Since seventh grade, Hoey had been coached remotely by Terrence Mahon, one of the country’s top pro coaches, and, like Brad Sumner, a roommate and good friend of Fran Hoey’s in Philadelphia in the ’90s.
It's much easier to root for a blue-collar runner than a blue-blood runner. It's difficult to relate to an overdog. That said, Hoey's story has a theme of perseverance that transcends socioeconomic status.
This part from Gault's piece stood out to me:
Centrowitz was blown away by Fran’s dedication to his sons. If there was an obstacle in the way of their success, he would do whatever it took to remove it. If there was something that could make their lives easier, he would pay whatever it took to get it.
Reading the article, it struck me that Hoey's biggest challenges were related to mental health: depression, lacking confidence, pushing too hard in training, not trusting the process, etc. His father has done everything he can to remove Hoey's external obstacles, but oftentimes the greatest obstacles in life come from within.
Kudos to Gault on another excellent article. I enjoy reading feature profiles on athletes.
I'm just amazed at how hard Hoey was dudding for 6 years. All of those kids should've gone to college just to get away from their parents.
Amazing reporting by Jon. What strikes you is how meddlesome and emotional the father seems to be. Outside of that, it seems Josh is a classic case of a guy who just leaves his races in training. I think lactate and treadmills seem to be the biggest factors almost in the breakthrough along. Rinaldis system is sound, too. There’s also the possibility of doping which I’d agree with other posters doesn’t really go away considering just how fixated the family is
yall faded wrote:
Mr. Hoey hired a PR specialist to try and dampen the doping rumors by trying to get ahead of stories and explain away how his apparently world champion-level son required 6 coaches in like 7 years despite having more advantages than almost any other athlete I've ever seen. Sure, sure. How could my son dope? Can't you see he like shakespeare and was depressed? This family is psycho. Brothers with no hope of going pro dropping out of programs and skipping college for "love of the family" (read: pace set for Josh because they can't have non-family member athletes around to witness anything) is cult-like behavior. Just to go get online degrees from Liberty.
Rotating coaches and schmoozing them without giving really any of them more than a year to work with your world-class talent of a son is suspicious. What? you're telling me the rich guy working in finance who built his sons a track isn't above paying off coaches who felt uncomfortable? And the first coach to stick around and lead to immediate gold medal results also had another athlete recently involved in a doping issue? Or throwing money at Brojos and JG to publish a puff piece? Or demanding posts making accusations are deleted?
This entire thing has more red flags than just about anything in the sport right now. Complete house of cards. Wake me up when the positive A and B samples hit.
I couldn’t write a better post myself.
Gault medal wrote:
I guess it depends on what's in the pro contract. For people without rich parents, it'd be tough to pass on a ~$250k free ride in college for a degree that would help them get in the door in the real world (as opposed to Daddy's firm). Is a degree necessary to become successful financially? Obviously not, but it's a much greater degree of difficulty.
A pretty simple risk analysis points towards taking the large contracts out of high school basically every single time. If you place a massive value on the college/team experience, then it's closer, but the ncaa experience probably isn't worth giving up a million dollar + contract. You can also get a degree at any time (as they've already done), while the large high school contracts only come once. Keep in mind that if Hoey had struggled in college, there wouldn't have ever been a contract.
Also, everybody in this thread seems to be ignoring that the path Hoey has taken, while unconventional and adverse at times, has worked. He's a world champion and in contention for outdoor global medals.
Any "Financial Advisor" with that kind of money almost certainly acquired it by ripping off his clients with high fees and churn and burn stock picking. I am a private practice radiologist in my early 40s and I don't have the kind of money this guy apparently has to spend on his children's athletic pursuits. I just think it makes the whole story even more suspicious when you take into account the fact that the father is likely a white collar conman.
I wouldn't go to work for anything less than 6 figures.
McRunnin wrote:
Centrowitz was blown away by Fran’s dedication to his sons. If there was an obstacle in the way of their success, he would do whatever it took to remove it. If there was something that could make their lives easier, he would pay whatever it took to get it.
Ask ChatGPT to describe the kind of father who would assist his track athlete son with doping, and there's your answer (along with tons of money and an unhealthy obsession with the son's success).
quacks like a duck wrote:
This guy can afford anything... including the best doctors, the best drugs, the best way to pass doping tests.
Rinaldi is either the most gullible man on Earth or a great actor.
Exactly what I was thinking, and I was about to post a similar thought. Hoey may be the single biggest red flag for doping we have ever seen. What's frustrating is that JG is so high on himself and thinks that the rest of us are so stupid that nobody has thought that Hoey is the most obvious doper ever. It's funny how that piece he wrote does everything to duck the obvious and try to blame Hoey's mediocrity on literally everything besides the fact that he is just mediocre and that the only explanation for his rapid improvement is performance enhancing drugs. JG tries to cover by providing examples of the 400m hurdlers who transitioned to the 8 and had one good season. He's so pathetic in his blatant attempts to gaslight us into thinking the sport is somehow not completely tainted. JG, I'm not gullible, so nice try, and I will never suspend my critical thinking.
nysouthrunner wrote:
Also, everybody in this thread seems to be ignoring that the path Hoey has taken, while unconventional and adverse at times, has worked. He's a world champion and in contention for outdoor global medals.
Yeah, only it hasn't worked until last season. The other five years were a failure. And in JG's article, no real training information is described with his new coach other than a slight reference to higher volume. Don't be so naive. Dude is doped to the gills.
Hoey i mentally scrub the times
waiting for the bust
which may never come with sports med bucks and protocol to avoid
that said
having all the money in the world isn't really an advantage mentally to drive you
except an an insane urge to prove to daddy and people you are a somebody
harsh here
Great article (at least the part I could read). Makes me feel terribly sad about the entire situation.