3/05 AM 7 moderate PM 4.5 moderate 3/06 AM 3 slow PM 1 easy, 12 x 200 (200) hard, 1 easy 3/07 AM 3 moderate PM 9.5 easy, 10x50 sprint 3/08 PM 4 moderate 3/09 PM 2.5 easy, 7 x 800, 2 easy 3/10 AM 3 easy PM 2.5 easy, 3x600 (600) (1:42, 1:41, 1:41), 5 miles jog 3/11 AM 11 very slow PM 5 fast
75 miles
3/12 AM 12 easy 3/13 AM 4 miles fartlek PM 1 easy, 4x400 (65,65,62,61), 4x200 (28,28,29,28) 5.5 slow 3/14 PM 4.5 easy PM 8 x150, 4.5 easy 3/15 AM 3 easy PM 5 easy 3/16 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 800 (2:15), 1 mile jog, 800 (2:13), 800 jog, 6x150, 2 warmdown 3/17 AM 4 easy PM 1 easy, 5x600 w200jog (1:45-1:39), 3 easy 3/18 AM 12.5 moderate, hard at end, 10x50 downhill 80 miles
3/19 rest 3/20 AM 3.5 moderate to fast PM 1 easy, 20x200 hill, 1.5 slow 3/21 AM 4 easy PM 1 mile time trial 4:42 3/22 AM 4 moderate PM 1 easy, 2 miles of straights, 3 easy 3/23 AM 4 hard PM 1 easy, 6x400, 4 easy 3/24 AM 9 miles fartlek 3/25 AM 4 easy 82 miles
3/26 rest 3/27 AM Meet 2 easy, 2 miles race 9:54.5, 1.5 easy PM 2.5 easy 3/28 AM 4 easy PM 10 easy 3/29 AM 4 moderate PM 800 jog, 3x1200 (400 jog - 3:48, 3:45, 3:39), 1 easy 3/30 AM Meet 1.5 easy, 2 mile race 9:37, 2 easy PM 2.5 easy 3/31 AM 5 easy PM 2 easy, 800m of hills, 2 easy 4/01 AM 2.5 miles fartlek, 2.5 easy PM 800jog, 6x800, 800jog 58 miles
4/02 AM 13.5 easy 4/03 PM 1 easy, 4x800 (2:30), 6x400(65-69), 4.5 easy 4/04 AM 5 easy 4/05 PM 800 easy, 12x200 4/06 PM 4.5 easy 4/07 rest 4/08 AM 4 miles fartlek 38 miles
4/09 PM 6 miles fartlek 4/10 AM 3 easy PM 1 easy, 2x1200 w400jog ( 3:37, 3:33), 4x200 4/11 AM Meet 1 mile easy, 2 mile race 9:57, 1 mile easy 4/12 AM 3 hard PM 1 easy, 4x 1200-400 w 400 jog (3:45, 69, 3:42, 68, 3:39, 66, 3:43, 64), 1 easy 4/13 PM 1 easy, 4x300 (45,45, 44, 44), 4x150, 2 easy 4/14 PM 4 easy 4/15 AM Meet 2.5 easy, 2 mile race 9:52, 1 easy 43 miles
4/16 AM 10 easy PM 3 easy, 4x150, 3 easy 4/17 AM 5 hard PM 9 moderate 4/18 AM 4 moderate-fast PM 1 easy, 10x400 (66, last one 61), 3 easy 4/19 AM 3 easy, 8x100 PM 1 easy, 4x800 (2:22), 4x400 (69,68,66,63), 1 easy 4/20 AM 6.5 easy PM 1 easy, 16x150, 1 easy 4/21 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 8x200, 2 easy 4/22 AM Meet 800 (2:04) of DMR, 1 mile (4:40) of 4xmile 81 miles
4/23 AM 6 easy PM 9 miles fartlek 4/24 AM 5 hard PM 1 easy, 1200 (75-74-65), 8x200 (28), 3 easy 4/25 AM 4 easy PM 1 easy, 8x400 (63-67), 2 easy 4/26 AM 5 moderate PM 10 moderate, 16x100 4/27 AM 4 easy PM 8.5 moderate, 2.5 miles of 100s 4/28 PM Meet 2 miles easy, 2 mile race 9:32, 2 miles easy PM 3 easy 4/29 AM 5 moderate PM 3 easy, 8x150, 4 easy 88 miles
4/30 AM 7 easy PM 1 easy, 8x400 (65,64,65,65,64,63,62,61), 1 easy 5/01 AM 4 easy PM 4 easy, 16x100 5/02 AM Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:26.8, 2 easy PM 3 easy 5/03 AM 4 moderate PM 10.5 easy 5/04 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 4x400 (67-62), 2x200, 4 easy 5/05 AM 4 easy PM 3 easy, 16x100 5/06 PM County Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:38 2nd, 2 easy 74 miles
5/07 AM 4 moderate PM 10.5 moderate 5/08 AM 5 moderate PM 1 easy, 20x150 (250jog), 1 easy 5/09 PM 7.5 easy 5/10 AM 5 moderate PM 1 easy, 10x400 (63-67, avg 64), 3 easy 5/11 AM 5 moderate, hard last mile PM 3 easy, 16x100 5/12 AM District Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:26.8 2nd , 2 easy 5/13 AM 4.5 moderate PM 3 easy, 8x150, 3 easy 77 miles
5/14 PM 11 miles (1:12) 5/15 AM 4 moderate PM 9.5 moderate 5/16 AM 6, hard last mile PM 1200 jog, 16x120, 1200 jog 5/17 AM 5 moderate PM 1200 jog, 4x1200 (3:30 w/800jog), 1.5 easy 5/18 AM 4 moderate PM 1 easy, 8x400 (64), 5 easy 5/19 AM 2 easy 5/20 PM State Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:17.6 3rd, 2 easy 70 miles
This is an awful lot of running to run 9:17. Thanks for sharing though as it shows how much training has progressed. I've coached a kid to an 8:05 3k and his training doesn't look nearly as hard as this.
I think 3k/3200m will definitely show you who does and doesn’t have a naturally high Vo2Max. I agree that anything over 80 mpw probably isn’t necessary for a 3k over 8 minutes, but one of my best friends can run the same 3k/5k as me off of half of the mileage. I typically need to be running consistent 45 mpw or higher to be in sub 9:20/10:00 shape, and I needed 65-75 to get me to my PB.
Looking to hear about anecdotal indicators of 9:20 fitness.
i have 2:06/4:30/9:40/15:35 PRs.
Not quite 9:20 flat (but close enough): I ran 8:46 for 3km in high school over 20 years ago.
At the time my best 800m was 2:02 (I only had 56 sec for 400m speed tops). And my best 1500m was 4:09. I had also run a 4:28 full Mile.
Workouts: I could do 5-6 x 1km 3:00 to 2:55 on a 2-min rest.
More often I'd do 8 x 1km slower in like 3:20 on a 1-min rest though.
10 x 400m in like 65-66sec average on a 2-min rest.
4 x 1600m all sub 5:00 down to 4:50 on a 3-min rest (I had also run 15:17 for 5km that Fall).
Mileage varied a ton in high school....during track I was down to more like 40-45 mpw, but during summer and winter I'd run up to 50-80 miles a week as a senior in hs. I'd also do some 10-mile progression runs and often cut down to sub 6-min mile pace. I ran a half marathon race on a whim my junior year and ran 1:13.
Came at it from a totally different direction, as I was I:57.5 800m, 4:02 for 1500m, and closed the last 800m of an 8:45 3000m in 2:06 (66/60).
Actually quite close to converging with you with 8x400m in 65-66 with 2 min rest.
Did more faster stuff such as 10 x 200m with 200m jog in 27/28, going a bit quicker over the last couple.
Didn't do long reps in Summer or any LT (this was back in the low mileage 80s). Did do 20x400m with 60 sec in the winter, and also longer reps then.
In Summer, also did things like 3x 4x150m with a lap walk between the sets, and a walk back to the start between reps. These were flat out (+/- 12.0 sec) for the last 800m.
Incidentally, I not recommending this to you as I think it's far from the optimal way to train run a good two miles.
I just had enough speed that I could run someway slower than target pace for most of the way and good anaerobic power/lactate tolerance that I could then hammer the last 800m.
Ran 4:20 1600, 8:39 3k 9:20 3200 and 15:13 in 1986 on a 16 week average of around 43 miles a week. Biggest week was 61 during that time. Was injured most of XC season as senior and started working with someone who didn't coach at our school. Here are a few things that I can remember
5x3minw/90 seconds rest was a staple workout on trails
60/60 Weekend to build aerobic system ie 60 min run on Saturday and Sunday
Wasn't unusually to have 30/30 ie 30 min run on Monday 30 min run on Tuesday.
I probably did some 400's but these were on cinders so never very fast and generally with only 1 min recovery.
39 years ago very hard to remember specific details.
Sounds like you achieved your goals. Well done OP!
3/05 AM 7 moderate PM 4.5 moderate 3/06 AM 3 slow PM 1 easy, 12 x 200 (200) hard, 1 easy 3/07 AM 3 moderate PM 9.5 easy, 10x50 sprint 3/08 PM 4 moderate 3/09 PM 2.5 easy, 7 x 800, 2 easy 3/10 AM 3 easy PM 2.5 easy, 3x600 (600) (1:42, 1:41, 1:41), 5 miles jog 3/11 AM 11 very slow PM 5 fast
75 miles
3/12 AM 12 easy 3/13 AM 4 miles fartlek PM 1 easy, 4x400 (65,65,62,61), 4x200 (28,28,29,28) 5.5 slow 3/14 PM 4.5 easy PM 8 x150, 4.5 easy 3/15 AM 3 easy PM 5 easy 3/16 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 800 (2:15), 1 mile jog, 800 (2:13), 800 jog, 6x150, 2 warmdown 3/17 AM 4 easy PM 1 easy, 5x600 w200jog (1:45-1:39), 3 easy 3/18 AM 12.5 moderate, hard at end, 10x50 downhill 80 miles
3/19 rest 3/20 AM 3.5 moderate to fast PM 1 easy, 20x200 hill, 1.5 slow 3/21 AM 4 easy PM 1 mile time trial 4:42 3/22 AM 4 moderate PM 1 easy, 2 miles of straights, 3 easy 3/23 AM 4 hard PM 1 easy, 6x400, 4 easy 3/24 AM 9 miles fartlek 3/25 AM 4 easy 82 miles
3/26 rest 3/27 AM Meet 2 easy, 2 miles race 9:54.5, 1.5 easy PM 2.5 easy 3/28 AM 4 easy PM 10 easy 3/29 AM 4 moderate PM 800 jog, 3x1200 (400 jog - 3:48, 3:45, 3:39), 1 easy 3/30 AM Meet 1.5 easy, 2 mile race 9:37, 2 easy PM 2.5 easy 3/31 AM 5 easy PM 2 easy, 800m of hills, 2 easy 4/01 AM 2.5 miles fartlek, 2.5 easy PM 800jog, 6x800, 800jog 58 miles
4/02 AM 13.5 easy 4/03 PM 1 easy, 4x800 (2:30), 6x400(65-69), 4.5 easy 4/04 AM 5 easy 4/05 PM 800 easy, 12x200 4/06 PM 4.5 easy 4/07 rest 4/08 AM 4 miles fartlek 38 miles
4/09 PM 6 miles fartlek 4/10 AM 3 easy PM 1 easy, 2x1200 w400jog ( 3:37, 3:33), 4x200 4/11 AM Meet 1 mile easy, 2 mile race 9:57, 1 mile easy 4/12 AM 3 hard PM 1 easy, 4x 1200-400 w 400 jog (3:45, 69, 3:42, 68, 3:39, 66, 3:43, 64), 1 easy 4/13 PM 1 easy, 4x300 (45,45, 44, 44), 4x150, 2 easy 4/14 PM 4 easy 4/15 AM Meet 2.5 easy, 2 mile race 9:52, 1 easy 43 miles
4/16 AM 10 easy PM 3 easy, 4x150, 3 easy 4/17 AM 5 hard PM 9 moderate 4/18 AM 4 moderate-fast PM 1 easy, 10x400 (66, last one 61), 3 easy 4/19 AM 3 easy, 8x100 PM 1 easy, 4x800 (2:22), 4x400 (69,68,66,63), 1 easy 4/20 AM 6.5 easy PM 1 easy, 16x150, 1 easy 4/21 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 8x200, 2 easy 4/22 AM Meet 800 (2:04) of DMR, 1 mile (4:40) of 4xmile 81 miles
4/23 AM 6 easy PM 9 miles fartlek 4/24 AM 5 hard PM 1 easy, 1200 (75-74-65), 8x200 (28), 3 easy 4/25 AM 4 easy PM 1 easy, 8x400 (63-67), 2 easy 4/26 AM 5 moderate PM 10 moderate, 16x100 4/27 AM 4 easy PM 8.5 moderate, 2.5 miles of 100s 4/28 PM Meet 2 miles easy, 2 mile race 9:32, 2 miles easy PM 3 easy 4/29 AM 5 moderate PM 3 easy, 8x150, 4 easy 88 miles
4/30 AM 7 easy PM 1 easy, 8x400 (65,64,65,65,64,63,62,61), 1 easy 5/01 AM 4 easy PM 4 easy, 16x100 5/02 AM Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:26.8, 2 easy PM 3 easy 5/03 AM 4 moderate PM 10.5 easy 5/04 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 4x400 (67-62), 2x200, 4 easy 5/05 AM 4 easy PM 3 easy, 16x100 5/06 PM County Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:38 2nd, 2 easy 74 miles
5/07 AM 4 moderate PM 10.5 moderate 5/08 AM 5 moderate PM 1 easy, 20x150 (250jog), 1 easy 5/09 PM 7.5 easy 5/10 AM 5 moderate PM 1 easy, 10x400 (63-67, avg 64), 3 easy 5/11 AM 5 moderate, hard last mile PM 3 easy, 16x100 5/12 AM District Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:26.8 2nd , 2 easy 5/13 AM 4.5 moderate PM 3 easy, 8x150, 3 easy 77 miles
5/14 PM 11 miles (1:12) 5/15 AM 4 moderate PM 9.5 moderate 5/16 AM 6, hard last mile PM 1200 jog, 16x120, 1200 jog 5/17 AM 5 moderate PM 1200 jog, 4x1200 (3:30 w/800jog), 1.5 easy 5/18 AM 4 moderate PM 1 easy, 8x400 (64), 5 easy 5/19 AM 2 easy 5/20 PM State Meet 2 easy, 2 mile race 9:17.6 3rd, 2 easy 70 miles
This is an awful lot of running to run 9:17. Thanks for sharing though as it shows how much training has progressed. I've coached a kid to an 8:05 3k and his training doesn't look nearly as hard as this.
You guys and your obsession with "hard". There was nothing hard about my training. The objective of training is to run "smart" and with purpose, not hard. Hard running is for losers.
I climbed the ladder one rung at a time. Did your 8:05 guy do the same? In that 9:17 (yards) the first mile was 4:41 (my PR was 4:40) the last mile was 4:36. We were competitors first and foremost. Actually I should say "first and only."
Did your 8:05 guy have that mindset? How fast did he end up running?
This is an awful lot of running to run 9:17. Thanks for sharing though as it shows how much training has progressed. I've coached a kid to an 8:05 3k and his training doesn't look nearly as hard as this.
You guys and your obsession with "hard". There was nothing hard about my training. The objective of training is to run "smart" and with purpose, not hard. Hard running is for losers.
I climbed the ladder one rung at a time. Did your 8:05 guy do the same? In that 9:17 (yards) the first mile was 4:41 (my PR was 4:40) the last mile was 4:36. We were competitors first and foremost. Actually I should say "first and only."
Did your 8:05 guy have that mindset? How fast did he end up running?
Malmo not to discredit your achievements. You were a fantastic runner.
The athlete that I coach who ran 8:05 this season 5 years ago was a 14:52 4k runner so progress has been made. He has run 3:48, 8:05, 14:00 and 29:37 and his training is around 60-65 miles per week. He isn't nearly as talented as other athletes I coach. Lets see what he runs as a freshman at the NCAA's this season if a school is lucky enough to get him.
I ran in the mid 80's and ran like most athletes around 40 miles per week and still ran 9:20 and 15:13. I can remember being 100m behind another good runner by the name of John Trautmann in that race.
Times are different and if you were to coach a young junior today and I don't think you would prescribe to the same program you did in the 70's. I could be wrong.
Malmo not to discredit your achievements. You were a fantastic runner.
The athlete that I coach who ran 8:05 this season 5 years ago was a 14:52 4k runner so progress has been made. He has run 3:48, 8:05, 14:00 and 29:37 and his training is around 60-65 miles per week. He isn't nearly as talented as other athletes I coach. Lets see what he runs as a freshman at the NCAA's this season if a school is lucky enough to get him.
I ran in the mid 80's and ran like most athletes around 40 miles per week and still ran 9:20 and 15:13. I can remember being 100m behind another good runner by the name of John Trautmann in that race.
Times are different and if you were to coach a young junior today and I don't think you would prescribe to the same program you did in the 70's. I could be wrong.
Yes you are wrong. I've mentioned this many times to kids wondering how to develop a kick. You need to practice it. I did. Practice makes perfect. G-day.
You guys and your obsession with "hard". There was nothing hard about my training. The objective of training is to run "smart" and with purpose, not hard. Hard running is for losers.
I climbed the ladder one rung at a time. Did your 8:05 guy do the same? In that 9:17 (yards) the first mile was 4:41 (my PR was 4:40) the last mile was 4:36. We were competitors first and foremost. Actually I should say "first and only."
Did your 8:05 guy have that mindset? How fast did he end up running?
Malmo not to discredit your achievements. You were a fantastic runner.
The athlete that I coach who ran 8:05 this season 5 years ago was a 14:52 4k runner so progress has been made. He has run 3:48, 8:05, 14:00 and 29:37 and his training is around 60-65 miles per week. He isn't nearly as talented as other athletes I coach. Lets see what he runs as a freshman at the NCAA's this season if a school is lucky enough to get him.
I ran in the mid 80's and ran like most athletes around 40 miles per week and still ran 9:20 and 15:13. I can remember being 100m behind another good runner by the name of John Trautmann in that race.
Times are different and if you were to coach a young junior today and I don't think you would prescribe to the same program you did in the 70's. I could be wrong.
I ran a handful of races 9:38 - 9:45 before going 9:21. Don't exactly remember workouts that I ran. Got put in a pretty competitive race with numerous sub 9:10 guys and was able to sit in a giant group and got pulled along to 9:21. Sometimes it's not a workout but just being in the right race.
Same. I was 9:35 guy then went to southwest classic in Arizona and ran 9:18. All we did in training was lots of 400’s with 400 jog and occasional 800s. Otherwise we just went for runs and some days we barely moved and joked around, other days we ran fast and pushed pace.
Malmo not to discredit your achievements. You were a fantastic runner.
The athlete that I coach who ran 8:05 this season 5 years ago was a 14:52 4k runner so progress has been made. He has run 3:48, 8:05, 14:00 and 29:37 and his training is around 60-65 miles per week. He isn't nearly as talented as other athletes I coach. Lets see what he runs as a freshman at the NCAA's this season if a school is lucky enough to get him.
I ran in the mid 80's and ran like most athletes around 40 miles per week and still ran 9:20 and 15:13. I can remember being 100m behind another good runner by the name of John Trautmann in that race.
Times are different and if you were to coach a young junior today and I don't think you would prescribe to the same program you did in the 70's. I could be wrong.
You guys and your obsession with "hard". There was nothing hard about my training. The objective of training is to run "smart" and with purpose, not hard. Hard running is for losers.
I climbed the ladder one rung at a time. Did your 8:05 guy do the same? In that 9:17 (yards) the first mile was 4:41 (my PR was 4:40) the last mile was 4:36. We were competitors first and foremost. Actually I should say "first and only."
Did your 8:05 guy have that mindset? How fast did he end up running?
Malmo not to discredit your achievements. You were a fantastic runner.
The athlete that I coach who ran 8:05 this season 5 years ago was a 14:52 4k runner so progress has been made. He has run 3:48, 8:05, 14:00 and 29:37 and his training is around 60-65 miles per week. He isn't nearly as talented as other athletes I coach. Lets see what he runs as a freshman at the NCAA's this season if a school is lucky enough to get him.
I ran in the mid 80's and ran like most athletes around 40 miles per week and still ran 9:20 and 15:13. I can remember being 100m behind another good runner by the name of John Trautmann in that race.
Times are different and if you were to coach a young junior today and I don't think you would prescribe to the same program you did in the 70's. I could be wrong.
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. If anything, I am even more impressed by Malmo’s training because it suggests he wasn’t a “super talent.” Yet, he went on to hold the AR at one time and run an 8:21 steeplechase (and a 1:01 marathon when that was an extremely competitive time). So “hard,” “smart,” whatever training in high school certainly didn’t limit him later. That 8:21 would be closer to 8:15 or better in today’s super shoes by the way.
But, no doubt there are incredible talents who don’t need to be running 70-80 mpw and can somehow go sub-4, sub-8:55. And they likely will run 9:20 on 40 mpw. Brian Grosso comes to mind, as does Marc Davis. I don’t think either of those guys topped 60 mpw in high school. But that seems like the bare minimum threshold, not something that is or should be the norm.
920 came easy to me because I had built a base up from childhood sports leagues. Never was lazy, always lived to run around. By end of high school, i was just predominantly ripping darts and cranking nose beers at that time. Would run to the end of the street and back a couple times--not jogging like a wussy, a very quick paced tempo. A fre people would quip, "run Forrest rub," and I'd stop on a dime and confront them. They usually got scared because they thought their microaggression and dip would suffice. One time I was having a bad day and 1-2 Mayweathered one of em. Didn't see him trolling around again after that. Those were the days.
