How come people always go back to Shelby. Her ban is up, jeez.
This is a thread about the most obvious doper in years --- Katir!
Well the commonality is in both facing lengthy and bans and still training very hard and broadcasting that on social media. It’s an interesting similarity to me. Truthfully I don’t get the sharing part of it.
I agree. We are all more similar than we think and it's an interesting behavioral thing to pick up on/hypothesize about.
Fundamentally what you are doing there is telling random people "hey I am fit and a good runner" right? And in the context of returning from a doping ban/suspicion that you deny wrongdoing in, you are basically trying to say "well look at what I am doing when you can sure I'm clean (presumably) and how good this is - why would I even cheat to begin with". It's more strange psychological gymnastics far beyond just "social media presence".
Wow, so just piecing this together. He's currently under suspension for technically just the doping offense and now another 4 years for tampering which appears to include forgery of documents he was hoping would exonerate him?
The first thing now that springs to my mind is what a tragic life this guy has - I legitimately feel bad for him. Of course I hate that he cheated, contributing to a rotten element of the sport that we actually don't know the exact scope and breadth of but on a human level it's clear this guy has nothing else. That's sad.
I also don't understand the extra 4 year thing - why is this just not a life ban? When you get to the degree of document forgery I think you've exhausted any "everyone makes mistakes and deserves a second chance" goodwill factor, no?
Also side note, that AIU first instance decision link you gave is depressing reading/scanning.
It’s only 2 more years. So his ban is 4 years total - 2 for whereabouts, 2 for tampering
Got you - you are right. Doesn't really change anything for me and I would still wonder why this is not just a lifetime ban.
How come people always go back to Shelby? Her ban is up, jeez. If you hate cheaters so much, try losing your mind about Kiprop or Rhonex Kipruto for a while just to spread the love around.
But if possible, stay focused... this is a thread about the most obvious doper in years --- Katir!
I hear you, but I think the brojos and Gault have contributed to the Shelby outrage even more by trying to inject a bit of unreasonable doubt into her case. This just makes people more angry and outspoken. Her repeated social media presence didn't help either.
Got you - you are right. Doesn't really change anything for me and I would still wonder why this is not just a lifetime ban.
There’s a few questions to ask here.
It seems generous to not backdate. Sure yeah technically the egregious attempt at deception didn’t change anything in regard to eligibility for Budapest. That being said a pattern of lying doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. An athlete who didn’t intend to miss more tests would not so aggressively shield the first one. The behavior is irrational otherwise and World Athletics doesn’t need to protect irrational behavior through technicalities. Their whole system involves probabilities which should apply here. I will tell you it is close to zero chance that an athlete who wasn’t either sitting on another missed test or had skipping tests as part of their plans would so crazily respond to 1 missed test.
It also seems weird to concurrently run these two offenses. While connected, “cheating” the whereabouts system this obviously is not in common with simply not being in the right place. It is a separate offense. 4 years is correct, but should be applied independently.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
How come people always go back to Shelby. Her ban is up, jeez.
This is a thread about the most obvious doper in years --- Katir!
Well the commonality is in both facing lengthy and bans and still training very hard and broadcasting that on social media. It’s an interesting similarity to me. Truthfully I don’t get the sharing part of it.
And it's only because they shared that on social media and you choose to follow. No doubt there're many banned runners who keep training.
And it's only because they shared that on social media and you choose to follow. No doubt there're many banned runners who keep training.
Yes I don’t find that strange to keep running. It’s a lifestyle they are used to. Even time trialing not so weird. Sharing it is odd, though Salvatore had a nice exploration of it. It certainly welcomes abuse and Shelby in a RW article had all these fears no doubt stoked by commenters. Katir I’m sure gets ton of hate lobbed at him. Probably best to conclude they just crave the reaction and want to validate things. Though I’d say Shelby running B level times and doing so in superspikes she once held moral opposition to had little effect on me.
This post was edited 31 seconds after it was posted.
It’s only 2 more years. So his ban is 4 years total - 2 for whereabouts, 2 for tampering
It's 4 years. But it runs concurrently with the other 2 years rather than consecutively.
So in effect yes it only adds 2 on but if that original ban were to be overturned for whatever reason, he'd still have to serve the 4 year ban.
He was an idiot for tampering in such a blatant and obvious manner because he was always going to get a longer ban, if the whereabouts ban is only 2 years.
Whereabouts bans should be 4 years - the same as if you are actually caught doping, otherwise athletes can just not answer the door and get half the ban.
I hear you, but I think the brojos and Gault have contributed to the Shelby outrage even more by trying to inject a bit of unreasonable doubt into her case. This just makes people more angry and outspoken. Her repeated social media presence didn't help either.
Yes! That is valid. And the natural resistance to anything the Brojos are doing/claiming is strong on this website.
That said, I talked to two people (about a year ago) who knew Shelby and each of them said "Shelby doesn't think she doped." which if true, would explain why she is so outspoken even in the face a lot of evidence.
Can you imagine how insane it would make you if you got busted for doping but actually believed you were innocent? (I am not saying that is the case, I am just saying that is how she perceives it.) That would be the worst. And I think that explains why she can't "let it go" or "admit it."
Best Christmas present any true fan of track could have.
He has been posting on Instagram lately of himself training hard in preparation for his 'comeback'. So arrogant, he actually expected to be cleared.
Let's not forget that the mods deleted the original 'Is Katir the most obvious doper in history?' thread for being 'discrimanatory', and that the OP defended him endlessly.
No Moroccan has ever run under 3:32 clean.
You cannot speak in certainties. El Guerrouj is Moroccan and is the greatest middle distance runner of my generation.
Are you actually being serious? The dude was Morceli 2.0- a legit science experiment. Training partner popped (kaouch), Driouch reportedly doped by Kada (El Gerrouj's coach). He dominated in a time of HEAVY epo use.
what hurts friend? while you criticize me that this is normal it is the nature of men when there is another man better than him they envy him, ask your wife if Katir is handsome or not surely your wife would be delighted to be with a winner not a loser
Driouch is a batant example of how full meal deal PED program takes a 4 minute miler below 350. and a 149 guy down to 144. in the 8.
add in the shoes and the pacing- lights and the fast tracks,
yesterday's cleanish 329 becomes a 325,
i say cleanish, because in the late 70's 80's there was a lot of gray area stuff going on, that was considered somewhat fair play, such as infusions to "regain health", which is blood doping and various meds, not banned.
And it's only because they shared that on social media and you choose to follow. No doubt there're many banned runners who keep training.
Yes I don’t find that strange to keep running. It’s a lifestyle they are used to. Even time trialing not so weird. Sharing it is odd, though Salvatore had a nice exploration of it. It certainly welcomes abuse and Shelby in a RW article had all these fears no doubt stoked by commenters. Katir I’m sure gets ton of hate lobbed at him. Probably best to conclude they just crave the reaction and want to validate things. Though I’d say Shelby running B level times and doing so in superspikes she once held moral opposition to had little effect on me.
Another rationale re Katir training full on is that he may well believe that post ban he can return, without doping, to a very high level and make decent living as an athlete - possibly a better income than he could otherwise earn (his poetry not likely a big revenue stream). And indeed he may be right. The fact that he passed every test he took suggests to me (as a non scientist) that he may have been continually or sporadically micro dosing and so may be able to run say 13.00/05 - 7.35/ 3,31/32 legit. Am guessing a bit on that but I don't see him, at his peak, as 'just' a 3.38/7.50 guy - he's obviously very talented. To be clear, I have zero support or tolerance for him for dumping on the sport as he has done.
Yes I don’t find that strange to keep running. It’s a lifestyle they are used to. Even time trialing not so weird. Sharing it is odd, though Salvatore had a nice exploration of it. It certainly welcomes abuse and Shelby in a RW article had all these fears no doubt stoked by commenters. Katir I’m sure gets ton of hate lobbed at him. Probably best to conclude they just crave the reaction and want to validate things. Though I’d say Shelby running B level times and doing so in superspikes she once held moral opposition to had little effect on me.
Another rationale re Katir training full on is that he may well believe that post ban he can return, without doping, to a very high level and make decent living as an athlete - possibly a better income than he could otherwise earn (his poetry not likely a big revenue stream). And indeed he may be right. The fact that he passed every test he took suggests to me (as a non scientist) that he may have been continually or sporadically micro dosing and so may be able to run say 13.00/05 - 7.35/ 3,31/32 legit. Am guessing a bit on that but I don't see him, at his peak, as 'just' a 3.38/7.50 guy - he's obviously very talented. To be clear, I have zero support or tolerance for him for dumping on the sport as he has done.
He was elite, but "middle of the road" type elite. You can see when the jump took place. After 4 years, I think he'll be like Ramzi and be another 3:35 guy (3:38 minus super shoes and pace lights). That doesn't get you much these days...not when JI is doing 3:38 back to back.
He was elite, but "middle of the road" type elite. You can see when the jump took place. After 4 years, I think he'll be like Ramzi and be another 3:35 guy (3:38 minus super shoes and pace lights). That doesn't get you much these days...not when JI is doing 3:38 back to back.
Katir will be older in 2028 than Manangoi when he came back after a two year ban. He was a 3:28 guy (before super shoes) who was boasting shortly before he got suspended that he would smash El G's WR at Monaco. He trained his a$$ off in the two years he was banned, including continuing to train (against the rules) with Potato Tim and his younger brother at Rongei. I don't think he's broken 3:36 since he returned. He's another one who the OP continues to defend to this day, claiming I have a 'weird obsession' with.