US test scores failing: 24/45 in math, 15/63 in science

Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:

the answer to 99% of things in this country is "money."

for the poorest kids, that they don't get the same level of infrastructure, teaching, coaching, as private school or suburban kids, which also drags down the averages.

for the rest, that ever since about reagan all this place seems to prize is money and schemes to make it. despite consuming stuff that reflects other values, eg, religion, academia, art, music, a lot of what is put out there to consume is to make a fast back.

my theory on american class structure is the wealthy are free to pursue knowledge and major in what they want, with fewer worries about a job at the end, and thus may be, say, a yale history major (one of the most popular majors there). meanwhile the middle class and poor approach life as "i need a job." so the state colleges for the middle class are actually cutting back on that same history major to fund business departments and such. and the poor often aspire to a trade as a stable job is better than being broke. setting aside the resources discussion i began with, i think the class analysis points at another reason we suck at global academic comparisons. the middle and lower classes do not value a broad sense of academics. they see school as a tool to a job. they do enough to get to the job/money hamster wheel.

TestsWrong wrote:

Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:

the answer to 99% of things in this country is "money."

for the poorest kids, that they don't get the same level of infrastructure, teaching, coaching, as private school or suburban kids, which also drags down the averages.

for the rest, that ever since about reagan all this place seems to prize is money and schemes to make it. despite consuming stuff that reflects other values, eg, religion, academia, art, music, a lot of what is put out there to consume is to make a fast back.

my theory on american class structure is the wealthy are free to pursue knowledge and major in what they want, with fewer worries about a job at the end, and thus may be, say, a yale history major (one of the most popular majors there). meanwhile the middle class and poor approach life as "i need a job." so the state colleges for the middle class are actually cutting back on that same history major to fund business departments and such. and the poor often aspire to a trade as a stable job is better than being broke. setting aside the resources discussion i began with, i think the class analysis points at another reason we suck at global academic comparisons. the middle and lower classes do not value a broad sense of academics. they see school as a tool to a job. they do enough to get to the job/money hamster wheel.

Again, boil it down to the new reality:

The richest get the best and can pursue whatever they want, having won the Birth Lottery, knowing that their Oligarchic families will slot them in and take care of them and theirs. Everyone else grinds away as wage slaves and will be expected to drop dead the minute they aren't worth feeding anymore.

That is the future we have arrived at. Genuine American Oligarchy is here.

Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:

the answer to 99% of things in this country is "money."

for the poorest kids, that they don't get the same level of infrastructure, teaching, coaching, as private school or suburban kids, which also drags down the averages.

for the rest, that ever since about reagan all this place seems to prize is money and schemes to make it. despite consuming stuff that reflects other values, eg, religion, academia, art, music, a lot of what is put out there to consume is to make a fast back.

my theory on american class structure is the wealthy are free to pursue knowledge and major in what they want, with fewer worries about a job at the end, and thus may be, say, a yale history major (one of the most popular majors there). meanwhile the middle class and poor approach life as "i need a job." so the state colleges for the middle class are actually cutting back on that same history major to fund business departments and such. and the poor often aspire to a trade as a stable job is better than being broke. setting aside the resources discussion i began with, i think the class analysis points at another reason we suck at global academic comparisons. the middle and lower classes do not value a broad sense of academics. they see school as a tool to a job. they do enough to get to the job/money hamster wheel.

55 YO wrote:

Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:

the answer to 99% of things in this country is "money."

for the poorest kids, that they don't get the same level of infrastructure, teaching, coaching, as private school or suburban kids, which also drags down the averages.

for the rest, that ever since about reagan all this place seems to prize is money and schemes to make it. despite consuming stuff that reflects other values, eg, religion, academia, art, music, a lot of what is put out there to consume is to make a fast back.

my theory on american class structure is the wealthy are free to pursue knowledge and major in what they want, with fewer worries about a job at the end, and thus may be, say, a yale history major (one of the most popular majors there). meanwhile the middle class and poor approach life as "i need a job." so the state colleges for the middle class are actually cutting back on that same history major to fund business departments and such. and the poor often aspire to a trade as a stable job is better than being broke. setting aside the resources discussion i began with, i think the class analysis points at another reason we suck at global academic comparisons. the middle and lower classes do not value a broad sense of academics. they see school as a tool to a job. they do enough to get to the job/money hamster wheel.

I would love to explore this further. What solutions would you propose?

no actual scores are given in this story wrote:

all of you are basing your conclusions on the ranks without any regard for the actual scores.

Before you jump to your conclusions you should first ask:

1) what did the US students score?

2) How much of a drop is this from the last test (4 years ago)?

3) How does this compare to other countries (rate of increase or decrease)?

Here is an actual chart of those stats for math (if it downloads properly)

U.S. math scores drop post-pandemic on international test - Chalkbeat

Link:www.chalkbeat.org/2024/12/04/timss-int...

Rank Country 2019 average score 2023 average score Change
1 Singapore 625 615 −10
2 Chinese Taipei 599 607 8
3 South Korea 600 594 −6
3 Hong Kong 602 594 −8
5 Japan 593 591 −2
6 Lithuania 542 561 19
7 England 556 552 −4
8 Poland 520 546 26
8 Ireland 548 546 −2
10 Romania 542
11 Netherlands 538 537 −1
12 Latvia 546 534 −12
13 Norway 543 531 −12
14 Sweden 521 530 9
14 Czech Republic 533 530 −3
14 Bulgaria 515 530 15
17 Finland 532 529 −3
18 Australia 516 525 9
19 Germany 521 524 3
19 Denmark 525 524 −1
21 Serbia 508 523 15
22 Belgium 532 521 −11
23 Hungary 523 520 −3
24 United States 535 517 −18
24 Portugal 525 517 −8
26 Cyprus 532 516 −16
27 Slovak Republic 510 515 5
28 Slovenia 514
29 Italy 515 513 −2
29 Armenia 498 513 15
31 Albania 494 512 18
32 Canada 512 504 −8
33 United Arab Emirates 481 498 17
33 Spain 502 498 −4
33 Georgia 482 498 16
36 Azerbaijan 515 494 −21
37 New Zealand 487 490 3
38 Kazakhstan 512 487 −25
39 France 485 484 −1
40 Montenegro 453 477 24
41 North Macedonia 472 474 2
42 Qatar 449 464 15
43 Bahrain 480 462 −18
44 Kosovo 444 451 7
45 Chile 441 444 3
46 Jordan 427
47 Oman 431 421 −10
48 Saudi Arabia 398 420 22
48 Iran 443 420 −23
50 Morocco 383 393 10
51 Kuwait 383 382 −1
52 South Africa 374 362 −12

Now that you have the actual data, you can have your discussion.

As you can see the US dropped -18 pts in math. Some countries had similar drops; others did not. A few even had impressive gains. The number 1 country in the world dropped 10 pts (should they be worried/panicked and change their curriculum?) I don't think so.

I think a wise course of action would be to find out what the countries who gained are doing like Lithuania and Poland (up 19 and 26 pts despite the pandemic).

I also think we are teaching the wrong kind of math in US schools (we should be teaching consumer math - so citizens understand how credit cards, loans, etc work). By making the lessons more applicable to the real world students would be more engaged.

I also think the problem stems from how the education institution does not encourage new and creative methods for learning. My brother teaches math in high school...and got everyone but one student to pass the state assessment by turning how he taught upside down essentially. He almost got fired for doing this. but it was hard to argue with the results, so the school instead put him in charge of the curriculum. We need more of this.

another example of this: one school has students do their homework in class rather than at home so that they have the teacher there to help them. And they get their instructions from pre-taped videos they can watch at their own pace at home (and rewind if they need it to go slower). This is much like the Khan Academy approach.

My brother's technique is to cover the book cover-to- cover Mutiple times instead of just once during the school year. He tells them not to expect to understand everything the first time through. And that by the 4th or 5th time they start realize they know how to do this stuff (because they have seen it before).

no actual scores are given in this story wrote:

all of you are basing your conclusions on the ranks without any regard for the actual scores.

Before you jump to your conclusions you should first ask:

1) what did the US students score?

2) How much of a drop is this from the last test (4 years ago)?

3) How does this compare to other countries (rate of increase or decrease)?

Here is an actual chart of those stats for math (if it downloads properly)

U.S. math scores drop post-pandemic on international test - Chalkbeat

Link:www.chalkbeat.org/2024/12/04/timss-int...

Rank Country 2019 average score 2023 average score Change
1 Singapore 625 615 −10
2 Chinese Taipei 599 607 8
3 South Korea 600 594 −6
3 Hong Kong 602 594 −8
5 Japan 593 591 −2
6 Lithuania 542 561 19
7 England 556 552 −4
8 Poland 520 546 26
8 Ireland 548 546 −2
10 Romania 542
11 Netherlands 538 537 −1
12 Latvia 546 534 −12
13 Norway 543 531 −12
14 Sweden 521 530 9
14 Czech Republic 533 530 −3
14 Bulgaria 515 530 15
17 Finland 532 529 −3
18 Australia 516 525 9
19 Germany 521 524 3
19 Denmark 525 524 −1
21 Serbia 508 523 15
22 Belgium 532 521 −11
23 Hungary 523 520 −3
24 United States 535 517 −18
24 Portugal 525 517 −8
26 Cyprus 532 516 −16
27 Slovak Republic 510 515 5
28 Slovenia 514
29 Italy 515 513 −2
29 Armenia 498 513 15
31 Albania 494 512 18
32 Canada 512 504 −8
33 United Arab Emirates 481 498 17
33 Spain 502 498 −4
33 Georgia 482 498 16
36 Azerbaijan 515 494 −21
37 New Zealand 487 490 3
38 Kazakhstan 512 487 −25
39 France 485 484 −1
40 Montenegro 453 477 24
41 North Macedonia 472 474 2
42 Qatar 449 464 15
43 Bahrain 480 462 −18
44 Kosovo 444 451 7
45 Chile 441 444 3
46 Jordan 427
47 Oman 431 421 −10
48 Saudi Arabia 398 420 22
48 Iran 443 420 −23
50 Morocco 383 393 10
51 Kuwait 383 382 −1
52 South Africa 374 362 −12

Now that you have the actual data, you can have your discussion.

As you can see the US dropped -18 pts in math. Some countries had similar drops; others did not. A few even had impressive gains. The number 1 country in the world dropped 10 pts (should they be worried/panicked and change their curriculum?) I don't think so.

I think a wise course of action would be to find out what the countries who gained are doing like Lithuania and Poland (up 19 and 26 pts despite the pandemic).

I also think we are teaching the wrong kind of math in US schools (we should be teaching consumer math - so citizens understand how credit cards, loans, etc work). By making the lessons more applicable to the real world students would be more engaged.

I also think the problem stems from how the education institution does not encourage new and creative methods for learning. My brother teaches math in high school...and got everyone but one student to pass the state assessment by turning how he taught upside down essentially. He almost got fired for doing this. but it was hard to argue with the results, so the school instead put him in charge of the curriculum. We need more of this.

another example of this: one school has students do their homework in class rather than at home so that they have the teacher there to help them. And they get their instructions from pre-taped videos they can watch at their own pace at home (and rewind if they need it to go slower). This is much like the Khan Academy approach.

My brother's technique is to cover the book cover-to- cover Mutiple times instead of just once during the school year. He tells them not to expect to understand everything the first time through. And that by the 4th or 5th time they start realize they know how to do this stuff (because they have seen it before).