We talked about this thread a lot on the podcast and also debated Fisher vs Donavan Brazier in terms of talent and career. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed. I said he was not the most talented athlete I have ever coached (referring to top speed). That is completely true. I stand by this comment and will not dilverge which athletes could run faster over 400M or 200M, etc.
2 - I said his #1 talent is his mind. I stand by that comment and have made it several times during interviews. He is the most mentally talented person I have ever coached. Bar none. No one so far is close.
3 - I was unaware this session was being recorded. While I really don’t care much, it’s probably best to listen to the ’theme’ of the session rather than picking out a sentence or two and making an assumption. The theme was to get HS kids to train their lungs rather than their top speed in practice. I stand by that suggestion.
Quick follow up, I prob took Scannell out of context initially
As mentioned previously, I've coached a couple Foot Locker kids myself
But only 1 of them was a top-5 that I'd say has the same physical talent as Grant
That kid went to a prestigious college, ran 60-70 miles a week, drank at least half that many beers per week, showed a couple flashes of brilliance but never did anything of substance of course
To this day he is essentially doing nothing, but has zero desire to finally go all-in and build up to 100+ mile weeks to find out if he too can get a medal like his college teammate and close friend
It's honestly so frustrating to watch it all happen in seeming slow-motion; youth wasted on the young once again
In that sense, I agree Grant's brain is what really sets him apart from those who do in fact have the same physical talents as he does
Ok, I'm gonna reach out to that kid again. It's maddening standing by as someone avoids doing what they are naturally best at. The regret in later years when it's no longer possible is agonizing. "What if?" are literally the two most heartbreaking words to spring up in one's mind.
No one you coached had the talent of Fisher. You would have won a huge lottery if you did.
You would rather be a dentist than a 13:06 runner? A 13:06 runner would have a chance of moving up to the marathon and making the U. S. team. Mantz has run 13:10. Should he give up running to become a lawyer?
The above poster mentioned it is more financially sensible to become a dentist, which is definitely true.
There is something to be said about chasing a singular goal (running performance) being more rewarding than a good career you are not overly passionate about.
I stopped competitive running at 22. I would never have been a top runner, but i was running right around a four minute mile in college (never under). I went into medicine and I'm surely financially better off than had i pursued running as a vocation for another eight years. With that said, there is always a little "what if".
If you had been a 13:06 runner, would you still have quit at age 22 to become.a dentist? It’s not a life changer to put off a career for 5 years.
Also says that he's "coached guys with better lungs and better blood values" but Grant's "best quality is his brain."
Footlocker Champ as Jr and Sr
Broke 4 in high school before super shoes were a thing
First American underclassman to win NCAA 5000 in 28 years
American Record holder in the 3000, 5000 & 10000
From one coach to another: Mr. Scannell, if you've coached so many guys with better lungs and more talent than Grant, you're doing a horrible job developing them!
Grant has always been a massive talent. And he's been successful no matter who coached him or what his priorities were outside of running. Yes, he's intelligent and has the ability to stay focused/relaxed while under considerable distress; he sounds like a real pleasure to work with, but to think he's not massively talented physically/physiologically as well is really a slap in the face of literally every other top American that has ever run the 3000/5000/10000 considering Grant is better than all of them.
Scannell was a high school coach. Once they leave high school, developing the talent is on other coaches. Compare Fisher to other comparably-talented athletes Scannell coached in high school. Apples to apples.
Grant is an extreme talent. the issue is most don't understand how to quantify all areas of distance running talent. He's not just an average talent with a good brain. that's ridiculous.
those here who have had the opportunity to coach a "rare talent" don't kid yourselves. that rare talent is still not on Grant Fisher's level. Maybe they could put in hard work to get between 13:00 and 13:30, but that's not life changing talent. that's good enough to do really well in college and then move on with the rest of your life. Or, if you really love running, you keep running after college, grinding your ass off trying to run 13:06, but really it is probably less financially sensible than moving on with your life and becoming a dentist or a lawyer or whatever.
You would rather be a dentist than a 13:06 runner? A 13:06 runner would have a chance of moving up to the marathon and making the U. S. team. Mantz has run 13:10. Should he give up running to become a lawyer?
That's what cracks me up about this board. You get the personality type who loves running, but is also very conscientious about career and financial stability. Then on the same board, you get the guys who scratch their heads on how american distance running is terrible compared to the rest of the world. Everyone hops into the ncaa, parties their butts off, chasing that dentist job, never going all in. Better to be safe than ever realize your potential.
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed…
when speaking about sprinters, maybe. With distance runners talent is more often defined by a combination of speed (and definitely not too end speed), stamina, and the ability to endure a large training volume.
Under this definition in your point 1, Christian Coleman would be considered a talented distance runner.
however, I’ll try to cut you some slack because I’ve been quoted out of context before and it can be quite annoying, so I appreciate you emphasizing the mental aspect of his talent was the main takeaway message here.
You would rather be a dentist than a 13:06 runner? A 13:06 runner would have a chance of moving up to the marathon and making the U. S. team. Mantz has run 13:10. Should he give up running to become a lawyer?
That's what cracks me up about this board. You get the personality type who loves running, but is also very conscientious about career and financial stability. Then on the same board, you get the guys who scratch their heads on how american distance running is terrible compared to the rest of the world. Everyone hops into the ncaa, parties their butts off, chasing that dentist job, never going all in. Better to be safe than ever realize your potential.
you should definitely work your butt off trying to be all you can be while your in it. and if it's not clear, the guy im talking about is not at 13:06 when he graduates. He chasing the time and ends up with a 13:06 when he's 27. and then probably gets a little slower for two or three years before moving on to real life.
Again, it's a fair choice to do that. If you can afford to chase your dream doing something that is stimulating, you do it. If just getting to that point isn't good enough for you, and you feel like there will always be 10-20-30 guys in the country better than you, than move on.
He's not just an average talent with a good brain.
What does "a good brain" mean.
But it is kind of funny... one of the better runners on my college team said that he felt like running "helped" his brain because he had to do math problems in his head (splits) when his brain was oxygen depleted.
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed…
when speaking about sprinters, maybe. With distance runners talent is more often defined by a combination of speed (and definitely not too end speed), stamina, and the ability to endure a large training volume.
Under this definition in your point 1, Christian Coleman would be considered a talented distance runner.
however, I’ll try to cut you some slack because I’ve been quoted out of context before and it can be quite annoying, so I appreciate you emphasizing the mental aspect of his talent was the main takeaway message here.
exactly!!!
ive seen 55s guys run 9:00. 52 second guys run 17:15. 52 second guys run 15:40. who is the most talented guy in that group?
the slowest 400 runner. And it's not close.
FWIW, in my experience, the absolute most talented distance runner ive had was also the fastest in the 400 by a large margin. but it's a case by case basis.
my best distance runner ever ran a 48. my best sprinter ever also ran a 48, while being a 10.7 in the 100. That kid also broke 18:00 for a 5k. But he is NOT the 2nd most talented distance runner ive ever coached.
Hey Coach, would love to hear more specifically about Grant Fisher's diet. Does he ever have junk food? How many calories does he eat? And do you believe stress injuries come from eating too little?
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed. I said he was not the most talented athlete I have ever coached (referring to top speed). That is completely true. I stand by this comment and will not dilverge which athletes could run faster over 400M or 200M, etc.
Yeah the most talented distance running in my HS was the 11/22/48 kid who would struggle to break 5, not the 51s/4:08 kid who ran at footlocker….
Sounds pretty stupid doesn’t it? I get it that distance runners like to pretend that it is hard work that gives 75+ vo2maxes and efficiency. It isn’t. That’s talent.
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed. I said he was not the most talented athlete I have ever coached (referring to top speed). That is completely true. I stand by this comment and will not dilverge which athletes could run faster over 400M or 200M, etc.
2 - I said his #1 talent is his mind. I stand by that comment and have made it several times during interviews. He is the most mentally talented person I have ever coached. Bar none. No one so far is close.
3 - I was unaware this session was being recorded. While I really don’t care much, it’s probably best to listen to the ’theme’ of the session rather than picking out a sentence or two and making an assumption. The theme was to get HS kids to train their lungs rather than their top speed in practice. I stand by that suggestion.
What does Grant’s mind do exactly? Can he override oxygen debt and bend steel with it. What is the conversion factor for Grant’s mind? Maybe one second per lap if transplanted to another runner?
You have the same conceit as many others, in believing an athlete wins because of mental toughness and not just talent. It’s an insult to other elite athletes. Pre used to make the same claim and in one of the Pre movies, Bowerman called him out on it.
"But honestly, he's not anywhere near the most talented guy I've ever uh, trained."
Implies that compared to the likes of Centro and Brazier, Grant has much less talent but gets by dialing in his strength and training a lot better.
Yeah if talent is defined as ability to run 400m fast….
Yeah.
It's like saying a 9.8 second sprinter has the most talent for marathon.
Talent maybe includes something called endurance, rhythm, strength, plasticity for development aerobic and speed, then there is the health and mental component.
is toughness a talent.
anyway, if grant got to 400 49 low, with 26 10k low,
1 - When people talk about ‘talent,’ they usually refer to top speed. I said he was not the most talented athlete I have ever coached (referring to top speed). That is completely true. I stand by this comment and will not dilverge which athletes could run faster over 400M or 200M, etc.
2 - I said his #1 talent is his mind. I stand by that comment and have made it several times during interviews. He is the most mentally talented person I have ever coached. Bar none. No one so far is close.
3 - I was unaware this session was being recorded. While I really don’t care much, it’s probably best to listen to the ’theme’ of the session rather than picking out a sentence or two and making an assumption. The theme was to get HS kids to train their lungs rather than their top speed in practice. I stand by that suggestion.
Huge fan of ya Mike for many years.
What percent is "luck" ? You have to be in position with 1k to go and ability to match surges and then the final kick. But "luck" has the final say and ya can't train "luck".