They should have left the course as is for the Mt.SAC Invitational and changed it only for CIF races. There was an opportunity to preserve comparisons to the late 70's when Jeff Nelson tore up the course when the course was not nearly well groomed as it currently is. I agree that running Mt. SAC three times in 4 weeks beats up legs and for Southern Section runners it can have a negative effect when it comes to State. But to do away with giving runners a chance at history and truly compare results from almost 50 years ago is a shame. I'm old enough to remember watching Thom Hunt break 10 minutes for the first time on the 2 mile course and then just a few years later watch Nelson demolish a national class field that included South Eugene going 14:32 on a true/full 3 mile course. Great memories never to be compared again.
Lots of top runners have been passing on the Mt SAC Invitational because it was beating up their legs. Mt SAC made the right decision to revamp the course.
Jaelyn Williams was injured in August and September. She has started racing again in October but just in small meets so far.
Last school year she quietly ended up the best Califonian at both the end of the cross country season and the end of the track season.
She's a very good runner but certainly stays under the radar compared to other California girls like Sadie and Rylee. Jaelyn is a quiet girl so maybe she is happy to not be in the spotlight too much.
Are they sick or injured? Or are they saving themselves for bigger meets like the state meet?
As mentioned above, Combe is listed. I'm sure the others are sitting to avoid running Mt. Sac THREE times this season. Blade and Wilson both won last week, so I'm sure the week off is good for them. Looks like Sadie only runs the Grandaddies these days. Woodbridge, Clovis, CIF, States, NXN.
Good idea. Because state is the most important meet for Ventura, where all of their top 5 will matter
As mentioned above, Combe is listed. I'm sure the others are sitting to avoid running Mt. Sac THREE times this season. Blade and Wilson both won last week, so I'm sure the week off is good for them. Looks like Sadie only runs the Grandaddies these days. Woodbridge, Clovis, CIF, States, NXN.
Good idea. Because state is the most important meet for Ventura, where all of their top 5 will matter
Yep, Most of the top teams have depth, and they will have half their team skip league finals and the other half skip CIF prelims to save their legs for CIF finals and States.
As mentioned above, Combe is listed. I'm sure the others are sitting to avoid running Mt. Sac THREE times this season. Blade and Wilson both won last week, so I'm sure the week off is good for them. Looks like Sadie only runs the Grandaddies these days. Woodbridge, Clovis, CIF, States, NXN.
Good idea. Because state is the most important meet for Ventura, where all of their top 5 will matter
Let's hope it works out better for them this year with the girls team than it did last year with their boys team.
This is an article by Rich Gonzalez (Prep Cal Track) from 2001 when he was a sports writer at the Pasadena Star-News
Mt. SAC thrown a curve Course improvements call into question the validity of new marks Pasadena Star-News October 18, 2001 Richard Gonzalez (Staff Writer)
October, 2000: Glendale Hoover High's Anita Siraki stuns the national prep cross country community when she breaks the Mt. San Antonio College course record by a stunning 17 seconds. November, 2000: Big Bear High's Ryan Hall runs the Mt. SAC course in 14:28, slicing four seconds off Jeff Nelson's 22-year-old boys course record. November, 2000: Don Lugo High's Erick Maldonado smashes the sophomore boys course record as five of the six fastest 10th-grade course times in history are achieved. All told, a whopping 39 revisions are made to the all-time grade lists. Oddly enough, these standout runners have enjoyed ample success before and since, but not quite to the degree achieved recently along the revered 2.95-mile Mt. SAC course. Well, maybe it's because the course had been shortened to 2.91 miles. Mt. SAC cross country women's coach Doug Todd has confirmed in three separate interviews since last November that the course has indeed been shortened, an end result of safety concerns, course upgrades and environmental effects. "We struggled not to make the changes, because the Mt. SAC course and the meet are so steeped in history," said Todd, who oversees this weekend's conclusion of the 54th annual Mt. SAC Cross Country Invitational, the nation's largest . "Some changes were unavoidable, but it doesn't make accepting the changes any easier." The most notable change was reconfiguring a portion of the "Valley Loop" as a safety matter. With the number of entrants swelling to match the meet's growth in popularity, maneuvering along the original course's sharp, jutting turn less than a minute into the race created logistical problems. Mt. SAC staff changed it to a sweeping and easier to navigate path, which Todd estimates cut about five seconds off each loop or 10 seconds per runner off the double loop. If his estimate is accurate, that translates to roughly a 50-second team-time (five runners) improvement over "pre-renovation" years. Additionally, heavy rains a few years ago caused erosion along some patches of the course. Throw in the beautification steps imposed in recent years a wider running path, planting of shade-producing trees along the route, and considerable landscaping to improve footing and the once-imposing course becomes a more inviting one. "We try to respect history and tradition, yet safety becomes a factor too ... a much more important factor," said Mt. SAC men's coach Mike Goff, who is the one entrusted with the upkeep of the course. "If course historians have a problem with it, I understand," Goff added. "At the same time, if we can improve the course to maximum conditions for runners, that's great, too. Bottom line, the best teams and runners will still win." The only drawback now is that the ever-popular time comparisons by generations of runners might lack integrity, since the course has changed. It used to be when one California runner would meet another, the first question was: "What's your best time at Mt. SAC?" Regardless, the course still offers a tough test to challengers. "Well, Mt. SAC's been too hot, too dusty, too slow, too crowded, too hard," said Goff, echoing some critics over the years. "And now... they say it's too fast. That's a new one."
Mt. SAC is the most nostalgic cross country course for me as runner coming up in CIF SS. That first invite my freshman year was such an experience and then seeing names like Ryan Hall and Jeff Nelson on the course record list made me the runner nerd I am. What I can say now is that Mt. SAC records need to have different "eras." This article makes it clear that the 2000s marked an altered and improved course that made it much easier to run fast on than what guys like Nelson and others in the 70s and 80s ran on. Then they were doing construction on the track during the back half of the 2010s and I'm pretty sure they made slight alterations to the airstrip/gauntlet sections. Now, I actually appreciate that the course is just straight up being redone, even though I don't like the removal of Poop out hill. At least now it is an entirely different course and won't be comparable to the old courses. So, for me, Jeff Nelson forever holds the original course record with 14:32, then Austin Tamagno holds the improved course record with 14:23, and whoever runs the fastest time this weekend will be the first to hold the new 3 mile course record.
They should have left the course as is for the Mt.SAC Invitational and changed it only for CIF races. There was an opportunity to preserve comparisons to the late 70's when Jeff Nelson tore up the course when the course was not nearly well groomed as it currently is. I agree that running Mt. SAC three times in 4 weeks beats up legs and for Southern Section runners it can have a negative effect when it comes to State. But to do away with giving runners a chance at history and truly compare results from almost 50 years ago is a shame. I'm old enough to remember watching Thom Hunt break 10 minutes for the first time on the 2 mile course and then just a few years later watch Nelson demolish a national class field that included South Eugene going 14:32 on a true/full 3 mile course. Great memories never to be compared again.
Times change.
Kids in HS don’t care about ‘comparing themselves to the ‘70s’, they care about running a good race. Sounds like the new course benefits spectatorship and easing up for the SS runners.
I ran this course in the ‘90s and 3 times in a month is rough on the body.
Foothill Technology boys won the D3,4,5 sweepstakes race
I know that Yosemite isn’t all that relevant anymore (much less next year FWIW), but they have been missing one of the Olney twins. He hasn’t raced since Cool Breeze. They have a YouTube channel
quick opinions based on friday afternoon (maybe saturday or cif experiences will be different):
1) i think times will be a little slower than the old course. i could be wrong about this.
2) stadium finish is not as viewer friendly as you'd think, unless this is all you want to see of the race. friday afternoon didn't have many in the stadium, but maybe that'll change with bigger, marquee races.
3) i think the course is less viewer-friendly than before, now that the saddle's closed. still, overall, it's a viewer-friendly course, and the experience was a positive one for both my athletes and me.
caveat: my opinions could have been different, but i coach boys and girls, and our races were stacked so closely together i didn't even really get a chance to spectate...
that's my story and i'm sticking to it,
cush
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
It was a bit warm today so that was also a factor but I suspect the course length makes it 10-15 seconds slower despite the loss of poop out hill. I also did not like a cross country race coming down to 300 meter sprint on the track.
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