That look on Arop's face with 100m to go..."how are these guys running so fast when they were nowhere to be found last year?"
But who else should we consider suspect?
That might be the look on our faces if we don't get some good news from Hoppel soon.
...it's been several hours since the 800 finished and with no explanation for his sudden DNS, it's starting to be concerning.
I don't mind calling balls and strikes on who is doping based on connections to known dopers and statistical trends. Just my thoughts on the top men's 800 runners:
Sedjati: Other than being Algerian and really fast, there is nothing that jumps out on his performances that would indicate doping. The fact that so little is known about a guy who is the best in the freaking world is also amazing. More likely to be doping than not, but I'm not confident about that. 60% chance he's doping.
Wanyonyi: If he is really 19, that means he ran 1:43.xx at 16! He could just be really talented, but he is coached by a known Italian doping coach. I think he's both older than 19 and also doping. 100%.
Tual: Hilariously, blantatly doping in a home Olympic year. 100%.
Attaoui: Still only 22, but just has had an absolute rapid progression. Barely under 1:47 two years ago and barely under 1:53 three years ago. Moroccan Spaniards also don't have a good track record. 100%.
Cheminingwa: Coming out of literally nowhere at 26 in an Olympic year to run world class times and not a lot is known about him. Same coach as Mary Morra in Alex Sang, who doesn't have any particular connections to doping and has been outspoke about Kenya cracking down on doping. 40%.
Pattison: Breakthrough year at 22 and was even bronze medalist last year. This guy is a talent, running sub-1:47 at 17. No known doping connections. 10%.
Crestan: Lots of races under his belt over the years and is 25 and didn't come anywhere close to these performances. His Belgian coach has "discovered" Ethiopians and coached them to fast times. 80%.
Kidali: Young guy at 21 without a lot of experience, but won Kenyan trials. Just as likely or not likely as anyone else to be doping, which I put at a generic 30%.
That then puts us on a tier of Hoppel, Arop, Kramer, Kessler, Miller. These guys are as clean as I think anyone can be. 10%. Below that, Habz is definitely a doper, and then there is really nobody else with a standout enough performance to warrant suspicion.
I agree with all of the analysis, but Sedjati is obvious
sedjati:
comes out of nowhere in 2021, nothing known about him before than. You say that’s amazing that he’s so mysterious, objectively speaking mysterious is not a good thing when being considered clean. Algerians have a history of doping accusations, makloufi had syringes in his bag 2017. Goes from 1:43 low to 1:41.4 in 1 year after being mediocre last year.
That might be the look on our faces if we don't get some good news from Hoppel soon.
...it's been several hours since the 800 finished and with no explanation for his sudden DNS, it's starting to be concerning.
I don't mind calling balls and strikes on who is doping based on connections to known dopers and statistical trends. Just my thoughts on the top men's 800 runners:
Sedjati: Other than being Algerian and really fast, there is nothing that jumps out on his performances that would indicate doping. The fact that so little is known about a guy who is the best in the freaking world is also amazing. More likely to be doping than not, but I'm not confident about that. 60% chance he's doping.
Wanyonyi: If he is really 19, that means he ran 1:43.xx at 16! He could just be really talented, but he is coached by a known Italian doping coach. I think he's both older than 19 and also doping. 100%.
Tual: Hilariously, blantatly doping in a home Olympic year. 100%.
Attaoui: Still only 22, but just has had an absolute rapid progression. Barely under 1:47 two years ago and barely under 1:53 three years ago. Moroccan Spaniards also don't have a good track record. 100%.
Cheminingwa: Coming out of literally nowhere at 26 in an Olympic year to run world class times and not a lot is known about him. Same coach as Mary Morra in Alex Sang, who doesn't have any particular connections to doping and has been outspoke about Kenya cracking down on doping. 40%.
Pattison: Breakthrough year at 22 and was even bronze medalist last year. This guy is a talent, running sub-1:47 at 17. No known doping connections. 10%.
Crestan: Lots of races under his belt over the years and is 25 and didn't come anywhere close to these performances. His Belgian coach has "discovered" Ethiopians and coached them to fast times. 80%.
Kidali: Young guy at 21 without a lot of experience, but won Kenyan trials. Just as likely or not likely as anyone else to be doping, which I put at a generic 30%.
That then puts us on a tier of Hoppel, Arop, Kramer, Kessler, Miller. These guys are as clean as I think anyone can be. 10%. Below that, Habz is definitely a doper, and then there is really nobody else with a standout enough performance to warrant suspicion.
Just finished watching the Monaco 800m. Arop looked in control with 200m to go, but faded badly down the home stretch. As the reigning world champion, it would be stupid of me to doubt him, but I would be lying if I wasn’t worried. I really hope he can get it together before Paris. Sedjati looks hard to beat.
1:42.93
2nd fastest 800m of his career
0.08 away from his PB
Not sure how “badly” he faded in that race.
He was ranked 2nd last year with his 1:42.85 (0.05 away from first)
Now he comes 6th in this race
…and this performance ranks him 11th this year ?????
Just finished watching the Monaco 800m. Arop looked in control with 200m to go, but faded badly down the home stretch. As the reigning world champion, it would be stupid of me to doubt him, but I would be lying if I wasn’t worried. I really hope he can get it together before Paris. Sedjati looks hard to beat.
"Worried" is the wrong word imo
He's in great shape. He is sadly no match for the Olympic year pharmaceutical cocktails
The context is clear now, why most athletes are in this bad need, to ENJOY racing, this underrated motivation.
It's the one only option left for clean athletes, to stay competing and motivated to train, for sports sake. Winning is no valid option any more, with all these chemical and juiced ones.
Preferably, athletics should be divided into a clean and a loaded one.
Just finished watching the Monaco 800m. Arop looked in control with 200m to go, but faded badly down the home stretch. As the reigning world champion, it would be stupid of me to doubt him, but I would be lying if I wasn’t worried. I really hope he can get it together before Paris. Sedjati looks hard to beat.
He ran 14.4 the last 100. He used to have this problem earlier in his career and fell apart in the last 100. He will improve if he lets someone else push from 200-600.
Yes, he's a bigger guy who sometimes struggles late. A great career but he is not suited to run with the current event leaders. The greater mass he carries becomes a hindrance late in the race (unless the fractions are moderate).
I don't mind calling balls and strikes on who is doping based on connections to known dopers and statistical trends. Just my thoughts on the top men's 800 runners:
Sedjati: Other than being Algerian and really fast, there is nothing that jumps out on his performances that would indicate doping. The fact that so little is known about a guy who is the best in the freaking world is also amazing. More likely to be doping than not, but I'm not confident about that. 60% chance he's doping.
Wanyonyi: If he is really 19, that means he ran 1:43.xx at 16! He could just be really talented, but he is coached by a known Italian doping coach. I think he's both older than 19 and also doping. 100%.
Tual: Hilariously, blantatly doping in a home Olympic year. 100%.
Attaoui: Still only 22, but just has had an absolute rapid progression. Barely under 1:47 two years ago and barely under 1:53 three years ago. Moroccan Spaniards also don't have a good track record. 100%.
Cheminingwa: Coming out of literally nowhere at 26 in an Olympic year to run world class times and not a lot is known about him. Same coach as Mary Morra in Alex Sang, who doesn't have any particular connections to doping and has been outspoke about Kenya cracking down on doping. 40%.
Pattison: Breakthrough year at 22 and was even bronze medalist last year. This guy is a talent, running sub-1:47 at 17. No known doping connections. 10%.
Crestan: Lots of races under his belt over the years and is 25 and didn't come anywhere close to these performances. His Belgian coach has "discovered" Ethiopians and coached them to fast times. 80%.
Kidali: Young guy at 21 without a lot of experience, but won Kenyan trials. Just as likely or not likely as anyone else to be doping, which I put at a generic 30%.
That then puts us on a tier of Hoppel, Arop, Kramer, Kessler, Miller. These guys are as clean as I think anyone can be. 10%. Below that, Habz is definitely a doper, and then there is really nobody else with a standout enough performance to warrant suspicion.
Africa: doping
US/Canada/UK: brilliant performance.
The end.
While I will usually agree with the statement above about the bias, I am very skeptical of the 800 meters yesterday. That last 100 meters made me very suspicious. As a former 800-meter runner myself, I've never seen anyone go into a full sprint like that the last 100 meters at 1:41 pace. The lactic acid build at that pace up will cause you to struggle while maintaining a good speed. He went into a full sprint as if he was fresh starting out in the race. Just a red flag for me.
If you're American, you gotta root for Hoppel anyway. He's a great guy. And I'm rooting for Tual, for all their trouble hosting the Olympics, they deserve to get a medalist in their somewhere.
I hear they have a Mexican (Lopez) in contention, a Mexican 800 medalist would be awesome.
I like Aprop, but wshing for Tual, Hoppel, AND Aprop all to medal in the same final might be a tall order, so it's not the end of the world if Aprop doesn't get it. He'll always be world champion, they can't take that away from him
Yes part of the resurgence of the men's 800 is certainly that many of the sub 143 guys are doping or on steroids. Arop could actually be clean, of all those sub 143 guys he'd probably most likely clean.
Yeah, a lot of guys going sub-1:42 or 1:42 low is suspicious. Bear in mind the last sub-1:42 runner, Nigel Amos, is serving a doping suspension.
I don't mind calling balls and strikes on who is doping based on connections to known dopers and statistical trends. Just my thoughts on the top men's 800 runners:
Sedjati: Other than being Algerian and really fast, there is nothing that jumps out on his performances that would indicate doping. The fact that so little is known about a guy who is the best in the freaking world is also amazing. More likely to be doping than not, but I'm not confident about that. 60% chance he's doping.
Wanyonyi: If he is really 19, that means he ran 1:43.xx at 16! He could just be really talented, but he is coached by a known Italian doping coach. I think he's both older than 19 and also doping. 100%.
Tual: Hilariously, blantatly doping in a home Olympic year. 100%.
Attaoui: Still only 22, but just has had an absolute rapid progression. Barely under 1:47 two years ago and barely under 1:53 three years ago. Moroccan Spaniards also don't have a good track record. 100%.
Cheminingwa: Coming out of literally nowhere at 26 in an Olympic year to run world class times and not a lot is known about him. Same coach as Mary Morra in Alex Sang, who doesn't have any particular connections to doping and has been outspoke about Kenya cracking down on doping. 40%.
Pattison: Breakthrough year at 22 and was even bronze medalist last year. This guy is a talent, running sub-1:47 at 17. No known doping connections. 10%.
Crestan: Lots of races under his belt over the years and is 25 and didn't come anywhere close to these performances. His Belgian coach has "discovered" Ethiopians and coached them to fast times. 80%.
Kidali: Young guy at 21 without a lot of experience, but won Kenyan trials. Just as likely or not likely as anyone else to be doping, which I put at a generic 30%.
That then puts us on a tier of Hoppel, Arop, Kramer, Kessler, Miller. These guys are as clean as I think anyone can be. 10%. Below that, Habz is definitely a doper, and then there is really nobody else with a standout enough performance to warrant suspicion.