One undernoticed reason for Hobbes Kessler's success in the 800 meters

His main reason for success in both the 1500 and 800 was following closely behind people who are better than him. He followed Nuguse to success in the 1500, then he followed Hoppel to success in the 800. He was smart to do that.

The lesson: learn from other people’s success. Follow (sometimes literally) what they do to be successful.

ya, proper drafting, and the intelligent start at 12.95, as the creator of the thread mentioned,

and with the upvotes a plenty, letsrun silent majority knows very well this is the case.

That's an odd argument. He was the best because he wasn't actually the best. Just "relatively". I think Hoppel showed more convincingly who was the best.

On the other hand, he may have run his career pr. There is nothing inevitable about running faster.

Can’t underestimate his training with Hoppel. A win for both of them. Early in the season, Hobbs mentioned Bruce was blowing his doors off in some short intervals (maybe 300s). He stuck to it and proved Adidas made a wise decision

True, and I’ve considered that. That could very well be the case, time will tell.

However, I have to believe Kessler still has more “upside,” especially if he exclusively focuses on the event and doesn’t have a bunch of 1500s in his legs beforehand. Now, will he ever break 1:42? That’s probably a stretch.

1:42.8 doesn't make the podium

How do you know that's perfection? The answer is you don't. And if you were attempting to reference Rudisha you got that wrong too.

Rudisha in London was 23.4, 25.9 (49.3), 26.0 (1.14.30), 26.6 (1.40.91)

How about if Rudisha even ran his first 400m without a 2.5 second differential (!!!) between the first and second 200's? That is considerable. What about if he runs 24.4, 24.9? I would guess that in a hypothetical redo if had been able to execute this he runs even faster in the final 200m (maybe in the 26.2/3 range) and our WR is 1.40.5

Of course we know why he runs so fast in the opening 200m - it's the Olympic final, he's nervous as hell with so much adrenaline, as was the entire field. That doesn't mean his splits represent perfection.

Most high level 800s are run with a positive split because positioning off the break is so crucial to getting a clean path. However, all else being equal, even splits are still the best way to PR, just like every other distance event. The idea that you have to run positive splits is a very common misconception.

Hobbs still has work to do as an overall tactician, but coming from an over-distance background helps him in this sense.

LOUUUUDDDD NOIIIIIISESSSSSSSS!!!

who is Hobbes?

It might. That time makes the podium at the last two Olympics.

On the other hand, doubtful that the Olympic semi and final will set up for Kessler as nicely as USA's did.

I haven’t learned the exact physiology that causes this or know if there’s an official term for it, but accelerating to a certain threshold speed for longer than about 20 seconds seems to set off an unavoidable timer that will have you completely bottoming out anaerobically in about 1:00 of time. This is why hard 200/300 repeats and a 400m race will have you hurting more after the effort is done than during it.

It’s part of what makes the 800m so interesting, you are racing relatively close to top speed and will usually need to accelerate to your top speed in order to make any kind of move. Do you get more bang for your buck by putting down a hard acceleration at the beginning of the race as that’s the fastest you’ll be able to potentially go, or do you want to save it for the final 150m where people are hurting because they made their move at the beginning of the race and their lactic timer is now expiring?

In highschool I would open an 800m in 27-28 when probably my fastest possible 200m was 25.0-25.5. I would be absolutely swimming down the homestretch but a lot of the time I’d open a gap that people couldn’t make up, even if they had significantly more energy and were moving faster than me at the end of the race. In college I would usually open in 26.5-27.5 but now with 23 second 200m speed that I could utilize in the final 150m to run down the people that went out faster than me but had less raw speed than me.

Most distance runners run the 800m like this (close to even splits) while most long sprinters run faster at the start and try to hold on. I think they're both valid strategies but for different types of runners (sprinters vs distance runners). If Hobbs tried to split low 23, he'd probably be going close to his all out 200m sprint pace, so he obviously can't start at that pace like some of the top sprinters can.

Maybe, maybe not. Hypothetically, does he get closer to the podium running a 3:30 flat PR in the 1500? Or even sub-3:30?

No question his long range view is the 1500 as it should be, but how can we know how good he actually could be in the 800 unless he focuses exclusively on it? I, for one, would love to see what he can do without a bunch of 1500s in his legs before 800 prelims. It’s not often we find a 1:43 and probable 1:42 guy when he’s basically just seriously focusing on the event for the first time.

I tend to agree with you. Does 1:42.50 make it?

Can't get much stronger for the 1500 in the next several weeks leading up to the games but can get much faster for the 800. Time to put all his eggs in the 800 basket and see where his 1:41 high ability takes him.

One way of gauging Kessler's relative talent in the two events: in the 1500, he's the 114th-fastest performer all-time, and In the 800, he's 95th. Most would agree that he's focused more on the 15 since high school, so he probably has more room to improve in the 8—if, as someone just said, he gave it his full attention.

But there have been great doublers in these events: Snell, Ryun, Wohlhuter, Kazankina, Van Damme, Ovett, Coe, Cram, Aouita, Elliott, Holmes...maybe Hobbs can be one of them.

I’m high as hell (legal where I am) and this was hilarious to me.