I keep seeing that stated as the primary reason to keep sending billions. But my first thought is "It's the only democracy in that part of the world AND . . . . ?" Why does that make it a worthwhile investment? Can you elaborate a little?
Is it even true? Turkey is a democracy. Cyprus is democracy. Some say Egypt is. Greece is a democracy.
Anyway, what of it? That always seemed such a conclusory statement.
Why is democracy worth supporting? Because we want it to spread. We fought imperial Japan but we are allies with democratic Japan. We fought totalitarian Germany but we are allies with democratic Germany. Israel is our best ally in that part of the world because of our shared values.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone knows we want democracy to spread. Everywhere, right? We want it to spread everywhere.
But I'm asking if you can elaborate on this specific (and debatable) fact: "Israel is the only democracy in that part of world." So what about "only" and "in that part of the world"? Why do those qualifiers justify the enormous amount of money spent on Israel over the last 8 decades (which never seems to stop)?
And would Israel stop being a democracy if we stopped paying them billions? Is that a real fear we have? They would convert to a dictatorship if we stop paying them? I suppose they could do that. Seems nuts, though.
Where do you want the Israeli Jews to go? They will be killed if Israel no longer exists.
That, at least to me, would be a real and compelling reason to support Israel -- prevent another massive genocide of Jews, like the one the Germans committed in the 1930-40s. But is that really going to happen if we eliminate aid to Israel, or at least limit it to a percentage similar to we give other democracies? Can't Israel defend itself at all? I don't know.
But yeah, there's 9 million Jews in Israel and if you're saying the surrounding Islamics will murder millions of them if we quit giving aid, then I guess we have to keep sending the money. We can't have another Holocaust.
To the poster above, the reason we want Democracy in the Middle East is quite clear. As long as that region is a place of tyranny and despair and anger, it will produce men and movements that threaten the safety of Americans and our friends. We seek the advance of democracy for the most practical of reasons: because democracies do not support terrorists or threaten the world with weapons of mass murder. This is completely ignoring the fact that millions of people will be crushed under the thumb oppressive and theocratic jihadist regimes. If we turn a blind eye, it is a disservice to us as well as the humans living in the region. Even if we could forget about it w/r/t our safety in the West, it would be an ethical and moral failure.
Yeah, everyone knows we want democracy and want it to spread. We want it to spread everywhere, I would think, not just the area Israel is in (where they aren't the only democracy). And if we are trying to spread democracy in the area Israel is in, wouldn't the money be better spent trying to get non-democracies in the area to be democratic, rather than spending hundreds of billions on the country that already is? I don't see the ROI here. Why don't we send hundreds of billions to Australia or Costa Rica so they can stay democractic?
Nice try Boris but we will not stop supporting our democratic ally. What message would that send to the rest of the world anyway?
Israel should Exist, people of the West Bank and Gaza Strip should be allowed to VOTE, Ialso believe in Diversity/Multiculturism through Open Borders For Israel To Prevent Israel from Having Jewish Privilege, Also I want no more Fighting Wars (1 0n 1 Fights are Great though especially through Sport ) as I hope ALL People live a Long and Happy Life and no more Tribal Conflict within Countries, So Jews and Muslims should live in Happiness Together.
That, at least to me, would be a real and compelling reason to support Israel -- prevent another massive genocide of Jews, like the one the Germans committed in the 1930-40s. But is that really going to happen if we eliminate aid to Israel, or at least limit it to a percentage similar to we give other democracies? Can't Israel defend itself at all? I don't know.
But yeah, there's 9 million Jews in Israel and if you're saying the surrounding Islamics will murder millions of them if we quit giving aid, then I guess we have to keep sending the money. We can't have another Holocaust.
Yeah, everyone knows we want democracy and want it to spread. We want it to spread everywhere, I would think, not just the area Israel is in (where they aren't the only democracy). And if we are trying to spread democracy in the area Israel is in, wouldn't the money be better spent trying to get non-democracies in the area to be democratic, rather than spending hundreds of billions on the country that already is? I don't see the ROI here. Why don't we send hundreds of billions to Australia or Costa Rica so they can stay democractic?
Nice try Boris but we will not stop supporting our democratic ally. What message would that send to the rest of the world anyway?
We keep paying billions to Israel because of the message it would send to the rest of the world if we didn't? That seems nuts. But then again, I don't know what message it would send, if it sent any message at all. What message are you thinking it would it send? You never said.
Well, it was the UK that created this problem in the first place when they were the governing body of the area and decided to let Israel have a country and screwed everyone else.
A preliminary finding of an exclusive survey of 1,012 voters about foreign policy, conducted by Focaldata and due to be released tomorrow on UnHerd, found that a striking 54% of 18-24-year-olds agreed with the statement that “the state of Israel should not exist.” Just 21% disagreed.
Pretty strong findings today in the news.
It's been nothing but a huge disaster for the ME, America, and the world for 8 decades
Well, it was the UK that created this problem in the first place when they were the governing body of the area and decided to let Israel have a country and screwed everyone else.
You beat me to making that point. The British were planning a Jewish state well before WWII and they were able to use the Holocaust as a rationale.
Just like in Ireland. They like to play chess with populations by moving them around and then redrawing borders to go with the new demographics.
Israeli democracy is deficient as long as it excludes from citizenship millions of people in its occupied territories and as long as it adheres to a racial-religious conception of the state. The same holds true of the region's Islamic-identified states. Only a secular democracy with universal citizenship rights can properly call itself a democracy. If Israel ceased to be a state, which will not happen as long as it is a nuclear power, its people would certainly be re-settled in the U.S. and Europe as part of a political settlement.
Well, it was the UK that created this problem in the first place when they were the governing body of the area and decided to let Israel have a country and screwed everyone else.
You beat me to making that point. The British were planning a Jewish state well before WWII and they were able to use the Holocaust as a rationale.
Just like in Ireland. They like to play chess with populations by moving them around and then redrawing borders to go with the new demographics.
Zionism began in the late 19th century. It did not come from the Brits. It came from some Euro Jews
You beat me to making that point. The British were planning a Jewish state well before WWII and they were able to use the Holocaust as a rationale.
Just like in Ireland. They like to play chess with populations by moving them around and then redrawing borders to go with the new demographics.
Zionism began in the late 19th century. It did not come from the Brits. It came from some Euro Jews
Zionism has existed since the destruction of Israel's 2nd temple and exile. Modern zionism arose the same time as Europe's age of nationalism in the 19th century. Until then there was no chance of a Jewish homeland but as empires broke up and pogroms took place the possibility was too much to ignore.
1.Should it be renamed back to Palestine? 2.Should it be blown to smithereens? 3.Should the final solution have been allowed? .Should the illegal occupants be sent back to Europe and the US?
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Why is democracy worth supporting? Because we want it to spread. We fought imperial Japan but we are allies with democratic Japan. We fought totalitarian Germany but we are allies with democratic Germany. Israel is our best ally in that part of the world because of our shared values.
What values are those, both of our countries are controlled by Jews?
Do we really need Israel? America and the UK have invested hundreds of billions of $$ in that place over the last 80 years or so, and we don't seem to get much in return. All the arguments for continued investment in Israel have seemed to evaporate over the years. As we now know, the demands of more $$ will be endless - they will never stop. The ROI seems to be minimal, if not negative.
We've given the countries around Israel and the palestinians more money than we've given Israel in the last 80 years.
I wonder if there's some cultural difference that leads Israel to thrive and their neighbors and the palestinians to remain in 7th century squalor?
A preliminary finding of an exclusive survey of 1,012 voters about foreign policy, conducted by Focaldata and due to be released tomorrow on UnHerd, found that a striking 54% of 18-24-year-olds agreed with the statement that “the state of Israel should not exist.” Just 21% disagreed.