You can compare his numbers in Giro to some others. Just google lanternerouge top climbing performances.
1100W for 5 seconds is nothing close to a very competent pro sprinter. Even I can do that if it's only for 5 seconds.. Look up Jonathan Milan's power data from this Giro. I think 1400 W for 20 seconds is something a top road sprinter should have. For track sprinters, max power should be > 2000 W
Who knows if he’s doping. Probably is. But to be fair, he was racing B-level competition in this Giro. Let’s see what happens in the Tour. And even then, the next 3 best grand tour riders are all coming off injuries from the big crash at Basque Country. He could run away with that too, but I doubt he will have as many stage wins because even the stage hunters not going for GC will be stronger than in the Giro.
You can chalk the 2022 Tour up to a stronger Visma team and better tactics, but Vingegard absolutely cracked Tadej on stage 16-17 last year. He’s not invincible.
It's not about who he's beating. It's that he just climbed 18km at an average of 6.2W/kg and close to 7W/kg over the final 3 or so miles. He touched 900W at sections in that final run to the summit - to put that in context, if you can maintain 1100W for 5 seconds you are considered a very competent pro sprinter - and that's not after riding close to 100 miles over hills.
The level of cheating here is astronomical.
1100W isn't much for a pro. GMBN's dirt jumper/slopestyle mountain bike presenter Blake Samson can do1850 watts. He very easily beat GCN's retired (not very good) pro sprinter Hank (James Lowsley-Williams), who says he can do 1200 watts, on a bunch of hill sprints in this video:
The cobbled climbs of races like the Tour of Flanders are really tough! But riders like Wout van Aert, Marianne Vos, and Mathieu van der Poel all have one th...
bah. wrote: Folks here don’t understand some basic axioms of running as well as cycling: 1) The key skill is to win without failing a test. 2) If you haven’t failed a test, you are clean. Doesn’t matter if you don’t like or believe it.
Td gf gf wrote: You sound like rekrunner
Sorry, but these "axioms" do not reflect my beliefs.
1) The spirit of sport is to try to win while behaving ethically at all times, including without doping and/or cheating.
2) Without going into criticisms of WADA's simplified science and law, even if you fail a test, you may still be clean: In 2019 (latest report pre-COVID), WADA reported that 57% of AAFs resulted in ADRVs (with 20% still pending). 11% were dismissed for valid medical reasons, and 10% of the cases were closed for other valid reasons, and 2% resulted in exoneration with No Sanction.
100% true. The goal is to win and not clearly violate the rules. If you think you can achieve that being absolutely natural and honest, it is like saying you can be Mr. Olympia with no roids.
He touched 900W at sections in that final run to the summit - to put that in context, if you can maintain 1100W for 5 seconds you are considered a very competent pro sprinter - and that's not after riding close to 100 miles over hills.
At my best ~20 years ago I did 1000W for 6 seconds. I was a low end Cat 3 and not a sprinter.
And 6.2 W/kg for an hour isn't even full gas for Pogacar. I remember in a past interview that Pogacar's target FTP in the tour will be 6.5 W/kg
Pogacar far surpassed his 6.2 W/kg power from the Giro where he demolished everyone and was holding back tons. Now we know why it looked so easy for him to be ahead by 10 minutes at the Giro, Pogacar's actual hour power is at least 6.96 W/kg and likely far higher than that. With that kind of power, Pogacar could easily been ahead by over 30 minutes ahead of everyone at the Giro if he wanted to instead of holding back.
"Pogačar did 6.98 ᵉW/Kg for 39:50 min, which is by far the greatest climbing performance ever, taking into account conditions and the stage difficulty. Sea normalised power for this historic effort is 7.27 ᵉW/Kg. Pogačar’s adjusted altitude score was 696, which means this performance was equivalent to pushing 6.96 ᵉW/Kg for 60 minutes at sea level. "
Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
It’s a shame these new dopers have whisked us away from the squeaky clean GC era of Chris Froome/Bradley Wiggins and Team Sky. They did it all on tea and crumpets!
I'd assume that nearly everyone in a grand tour is doing grey area stuff, with a slight majority doping blatantly. I doubt that they're doing blood transfusions anymore, but they're probably on highly specified regimes throughout training camps. Further, I think most would still sort of believe that they themselves are clean. People have a great capacity to convince themselves. Of course, if someone rises to the top of a doped out field, odds are they're doping as well.
As a viewer, I think it's a lot more interesting to watch these events as great arms races, with athletes using training methods, nutrition, and doping to gain marginal advantages over the field. Viewing this stuff as a part of the sport greatly increases my interest, and decreases my disappointment when it turns out the world champion beating doped records did in fact cheat.
I think being disappointed about doping reflects a perception of these sports as an amateur activity. We want to believe that at the top level athletes are still fundamentally the same as competitors in a high school dual meet. But it's not, there's millions on the line, and these guys dedicate their whole lives to the sport. Don't think of it like Tadej is an amateur, think of him as a dedicated pro doing everything in his power to win. It's a lot more fun this way.
I've been a fan since the mid 1980s and raced for many years and I have a hard time even watching now, strictly because of him. They might all be "to the gills" but he is next level, grade A, bull$hit.
Same here. I don't watch anymore. Tried Paris-Roubaix...are you kidding me?? What a joke
Yeah idk why all the down votes here. Do we think Cavendish, a good friend of Lance Armstrong's, is clean because he never got caught? I tend to think cycling is about as dirty as a sport as there is. But it would be too demoralizing to try to be a fan with that mindset. Watch the sport & judge the performances however you like. If someone gets popped, condemn them. If not it's just too sad to think about.
I missed this thread originally but Pogacar faced a lower level of competition at the Giro. He is being pushed more at the Tour. Idk how seriously people are following but it's not like he's dirty & Jonas isn't. Jonas' time trial last year was truly unbelievable. He crashed and missed training, which is why Pogacar is putting time into him. They're on the same drugs & would be closer if Jonas hadn't missed time. He could still rip the last time trial. 1:08 back isn't very much.
I've been a fan since the mid 1980s and raced for many years and I have a hard time even watching now, strictly because of him. They might all be "to the gills" but he is next level, grade A, bull$hit.
So Lance doping for 7 straight wins didn't turn you off the sport?
Doping within the peloton is definitely valid speculation for a host of reasons (and because it has been proven so many times in the past).
Those people speculating mechanical doping are the tin hat crowd. It would be so easy to prove mechanical doping, and it hasn't ever been proven within the top tier pro ranks. Yes its has been done a couple of times at low levels where bike inspections arent done and officials aren't really paying attention, but until there is any evidence, I'm calling it total nonsense at the international pro level.
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