His Half Marathon time is better in that the "increment" from 21.1 to 25 was at a pace of 3:15/km. By comparison, the "increment" from 21.1 to 42.2 is 3:08 and the marathon has a "glycogen" constraint that comes nto play that is absent between 21.1 and 25.
I am not demeaning this record; it is very good, but slightly inferior, time-wise, to the Half record. Of course, the conditions and course might have not been at good in this race.
That was bea aye you tee full! It should be on the front page of this website for all the losers who post and can do nothing but critisize.
Let's extend this to all you dorks who have to be critical of every American who gets sick or injured and has to pull out of a competition. When you train at the world calss level you live on the edge of health and illness.
My math has 4:36 pace for 20k at 57:02, and the half at 60:15. So....for someone who's ran 58:55 for the half (13.1 miles) going through the half in 60:15 with 2.4 miles left is very doable.
Alan
Geb is certainly fit enough to break the marathon WR. Now he just needs a good day. If he does, wouldn't this make him the first man to have held the 5000 and marathon world bests at some time in their career?
Major talents like Goucher and Culpepper can train at altitude most of their careers, put in great mileage and workouts, while maintaining a very fine line of max fitness to injury. Yet they can't even approach Geb, Bekele or even some of the Kenyan/Ethiopian juniors. None of our U.S. runners can, save Bernard Lagat who has a positive test to his name. Ritz trains to the brink of injury, yet on his fittest day is 1:00+ behind in the 10K. Seneca Lassiter was U.S. champion with a 1:45 800M PR and a 13:3x 5K PR. When taking on Lagat's 6 day/week training program, he got worse. There're lots of dopers getting caught with drugs and WR's jetting down at alarming rates. Not only that, but when they're done with those record races, they're fresh and go right into a tempo victory lap.
Far as positive tests, FloJo never tested positive. I don't think Marion Jones has either. Regina avoided positive tests for a long time. I think Geb's 1:11 and Bekele's 12:xx, 26:xx are jokes. Their 12:58 2nd 5K splits are Exhibit A for doping.
Ritz never took on Lagat's training program moron. Stop making crap up.
gunther 23 wrote:
Ritz never took on Lagat's training program moron. Stop making crap up.
Reading comprehension.....He said Lassiter did, not Ritz.
Is anyones name here Haile Depresselassie?
ttc,You're just not getting it.Ethiopians like Geb have TEN YEARS or more of training on the Americans. Goucher started running because he couldn't do football. Listen, I think Adam's a fantastic guy and an incredible athlete -- I hope to see him break his PB again this season. But was he running 20km everyday from the age of 8 to 18 in Colorado?And do the ancestors of Goucher and Culpepper have a history of depending on running for social status/survival? Here's that pubmed article again:
: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Dec
24;99(26):17215-8. Epub 2002 Dec 05. Related Articles,
Links
An Ethiopian pattern of human adaptation to
high-altitude hypoxia.
Beall CM, Decker MJ, Brittenham GM, Kushner I,
Gebremedhin A, Strohl KP.
Department of Anthropology, Case Western Reserve
University, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA.
cmb2@po.cwru.eduWe describe, in Ethiopia, a third successful pattern
of human adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia that
contrasts with both the Andean "classic"
(erythrocytosis with arterial hypoxemia) and the more
recently identified Tibetan (normal venous hemoglobin
concentration with arterial hypoxemia) patterns. A
field survey of 236 Ethiopian native residents at
3,530 m (11,650 feet), 14-86 years of age, without
evidence of iron deficiency, hemoglobinopathy, or
chronic inflammation, found an average hemoglobin
concentration of 15.9 and 15.0 gdl for males and
females, respectively, and an average oxygen
saturation of hemoglobin of 95.3%. Thus, Ethiopian
highlanders maintain venous hemoglobin concentrations
and arterial oxygen saturation within the ranges of
sea level populations, despite the unavoidable,
universal decrease in the ambient oxygen tension at
high altitude.
PMID: 12471159 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**********
This sample of high-altitude native residents from the
Semien Plateau of Ethiopia had hemoglobin
concentrations that differed little from sea level
values. The similar findings of erythropoietin
concentration and oxygen saturation in the normal sea
level range were consistent. The findings would not be
remarkable if this were a sea level sample, but it is
a sample of people exposed to chronic, lifelong
hypobaric hypoxia. Ethiopians must have unique
adaptations of oxygen uptake or delivery that result
in the absence of an hypoxemic stimulus to increase
red blood cell production and hemoglobin concentration
despite their high-altitude residence.
...
The results of this study suggest that Ethiopian
high-altitude natives respond to hypobaric hypoxia
differently than Andean or Tibetan highlanders. This
Ethiopian sample resembles samples from the Tibetan
Plateau in exhibiting little or no elevation of
hemoglobin concentration in this altitude range, but
differs from Tibetans who have very low oxygen
saturation. It differs from Andean high-altitude
natives who exhibited both substantial elevation of
hemoglobin concentration and low oxygen saturation.
These findings suggest there are three patterns of
adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia among indigenous
populations (Table 1). Learning why the three
populations differ will require two lines of future
investigation. One is understanding the biological
mechanisms and the underlying genetics that allow
successful high-altitude adaptation with
quantitatively different suites of traits for oxygen
sensing, response, and delivery. The other is
understanding the evolutionary processes that produced
these patterns to explain how and why several
successful human adaptations to high altitude evolved.
And because Lassiter didn't get better running with Bernard, it has to be because Beranrd's cheating and not because there's something wrong with Lassiter? Because, I can come up with a list of guys who tried to train with Steve Scott and got run into the ground. So what does that say about Steve?
ttc, it doesn't seem you watch too many WRs, or understand what's behind them.
First, do you know what Kenya nd Ethiopia were like until the 90s? Kenya skipped the Olympics in 76 and 80 back when the Olympics were EVERYTHING. Think what that would do to American track. Also, there was very little prize money and thus less motivation to get guys out running. You had fewer coaches in Kenya and you didn't have a world meet every other year to bring more guys out.
In Ethiopia, the situation was far worse. Famines in the 80s killed millions, and their own government terrorized them, killing A MILLION ETHIOPIANS. Add that to skipping 3 out of 4 Olympics between 1976 and 1988, how the hell can have a program in those conditions. It wasn't until 1992 that they kicked that government out and started a real program. Kostre knows his shit and with the availability of prize money and year round training that the WRs began to drop. Imagine having this HUGE talent pool but under terribly shitty and inconsistent conditions, and then having some stability and the opportunity to train and race.
And to address your final point, Mr Winchell, is Steve Prefontaine's 4min mile at the end of his 5k Exhibit A of his doping? I mean, just 18 years before, no one had EVER BROKEN 4 MIN, and yet this guy was doing it in a 5k! That's IMPOSSIBLE!
So it's nice to see that you considered the huge differences in sneaking cheats like Jacobs and consistent champions like Bekele and Geb.
I'll make sure to get the message to Mottram: stop improving now, don't run under 12:50 -- lest you be too much better than the Americans, and under ttc's incredibly well informed and unbiased cloud of suspicion.
O.K. Actually took a minute to look it up. Kolehmainen held both. So he would be the first guy in 86 years to do it.
Did Zatopek ever hold the marathon record? I know he won all three distance events at the same Olympics but am unsure of what records he set.
Alan
I forgot to add, about the condition of these runners when running WR performances:
I've seen the video of Geb's 12:39 -- Tim Hutchins' commentary notes to strain and stuggle on Geb's face. The same on Bekele's 5k indoor, the same on his outdoor 10k. He is working hard -- even leaving his lunch on the infield at Birmingham after his 12:49 indoors.
And, BTW, have you ever seen video of Coe's 3:47.33 -- what the first thing he did after crossing the line in WR? He turned and shouted to the press box -- how could he do that if he weren't dirty and superhuman? Or in LA 84, when he ran 3:32 with a blistering last 200m and then immediately turned and shouted to the press corps -- no human can do that?
When you're the most efficent athlete in the world, the best form and spend hours doing drills (as the Ethiopians do) and have been running LITERALLY ALL YOUR LIFE you might make it look easy, but they are working hard. If you paid them any attention you'd see it, too. But you can't, because it would mean that they really are better.
No, Jim Peters held it around that time and Emil never got it. Zatopek broke the 5k WR once, the 10k 4 times, and then various road distances many times.
What times do you think are "legal" and not drug aided? How do you know that other countries just flat out train better than us, have been running a lot longer than us, and are just plain more gifted genetically than us? It's people like you who have ruined track and field, I would hate to break a WR and have to listen to this crap all day. No matter how much they are tested and found to be clean you will never be fulfilled in your quest to bring hardworking athletes down.
or Lance Armstrong.
Oh wait, I do.
Zatopek broke the loop course WR, but Peters had a faster time on a point to point route.
GEB = BONDS. absolutely disgraceful that they let these two assholes compete
trackhead wrote:
: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Dec
24;99(26):17215-8. Epub 2002 Dec 05. Related Articles,
Links
An Ethiopian pattern of human adaptation to
high-altitude hypoxia.
Beall CM, Decker MJ, Brittenham GM, Kushner I,
Gebremedhin A, Strohl KP.
Department of Anthropology, Case Western Reserve
University, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA.
cmb2@po.cwru.eduWe describe, in Ethiopia, a third successful pattern
of human adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia that
contrasts with both the Andean "classic"
(erythrocytosis with arterial hypoxemia) and the more
recently identified Tibetan (normal venous hemoglobin
concentration with arterial hypoxemia) patterns. A
field survey of 236 Ethiopian native residents at
3,530 m (11,650 feet), 14-86 years of age, without
evidence of iron deficiency, hemoglobinopathy, or
chronic inflammation, found an average hemoglobin
concentration of 15.9 and 15.0 gdl for males and
females, respectively, and an average oxygen
saturation of hemoglobin of 95.3%. Thus, Ethiopian
highlanders maintain venous hemoglobin concentrations
and arterial oxygen saturation within the ranges of
sea level populations, despite the unavoidable,
universal decrease in the ambient oxygen tension at
high altitude.
PMID: 12471159 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
**********
This sample of high-altitude native residents from the
Semien Plateau of Ethiopia had hemoglobin
concentrations that differed little from sea level
values. The similar findings of erythropoietin
concentration and oxygen saturation in the normal sea
level range were consistent. The findings would not be
remarkable if this were a sea level sample, but it is
a sample of people exposed to chronic, lifelong
hypobaric hypoxia. Ethiopians must have unique
adaptations of oxygen uptake or delivery that result
in the absence of an hypoxemic stimulus to increase
red blood cell production and hemoglobin concentration
despite their high-altitude residence.
...
The results of this study suggest that Ethiopian
high-altitude natives respond to hypobaric hypoxia
differently than Andean or Tibetan highlanders. This
Ethiopian sample resembles samples from the Tibetan
Plateau in exhibiting little or no elevation of
hemoglobin concentration in this altitude range, but
differs from Tibetans who have very low oxygen
saturation. It differs from Andean high-altitude
natives who exhibited both substantial elevation of
hemoglobin concentration and low oxygen saturation.
These findings suggest there are three patterns of
adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia among indigenous
populations (Table 1). Learning why the three
populations differ will require two lines of future
investigation. One is understanding the biological
mechanisms and the underlying genetics that allow
successful high-altitude adaptation with
quantitatively different suites of traits for oxygen
sensing, response, and delivery. The other is
understanding the evolutionary processes that produced
these patterns to explain how and why several
successful human adaptations to high altitude evolved.
.
this can only mean one thing, all ethiopians take expensive drugs!
armstong was tested over 100 times....geb has never been tested.
Geb has never been tested. BS. He's held world records. He's been tested. By IAAF standards if you set a WR you get tested. Or so I assume.
Alan