What was your marathon progression?

-2015: 3:56

-2017: 3:36

- 2018: 3:21 and 3:19 ( a BQ)

-2019: 3:26 (Boston) and 3:13 and 3:13

-2021: 3:13 and 3:13

- 2022: 3:10 and 3:03 and 3:26 (blew up trying to go sub-3 1 month after running 3:03)

- 2023: 3:07 and 3:03

Stagnant.

Didn't know what I was doing at first and started to figure it out but have dealt with injuries and cramping on and off.

2019-3:24:33 (not bad, went by effort)

2020-1:54 half (COVID time trial)

2021-3:20:01 (poorly paced race I still regret)

2022-4:03:05 (hit by a car 12 weeks earlier but was just glad to be back, learned fueling)

2023-3:25:24 (not great but leg cramp caught me early and I ran conservatively to avoid bonking, plus watch was messed up)

Am going down to shorter distances for a few years. I just need to break 3:20 and that'll be good enough.

2019- 2:47

2021- 2:52(really strong head winds)

2022- 2:49 (it band injury reduced me to just jogging on steep trails for most of the training cycle)

2023- 2:46

Currently training for another marathon, hoping for a sub 2:40.

2013 - 41 - 3:19:49 (may); 3:01:56 (oct)

2014 - 42 - 2:55:58 (oct)

2015 - 43 -- 2:50:26 (apr); 2:48:08 (oct)

2016 - 44 - 2:47:40 (apr); 2:43:55 (sep)

2017 - 45/46 - 2:52:42 (apr, sick); 2:37:57 (nov)

2018 - 46 -- 2:43:39 (apr); 2:36:01 (sep)

2019 - 47/48 - 2:34:54 (apr); 2:34:05 (nov)

2021 - 49 - 2:36:49 (apr); 2:38:39 (sep, Berlin); 2:38:58 (1 week later, London)

2022 - 50 - 2:36:47 (oct);

2023 - 51/52 - 2:36:22 (apr); 2:33:32 (dec)

19 marathons so far. The 19th marathon was my first negative split 76:59/76:33

Age 35: 3:53

Age 45: 3:58

Excellent work, man!

Here's my entire list, which I suppose includes both progression and regression.

Age 22: 2:39:56

Age 23: 2:33:36

Age 24: 2:30:03; 2:23:37 (Boston, so not record-quality, but a reasonable reflection of my fitness at the time, following a period of several solid months of training)

Age 29: 2:28:++ (first marathon in almost five years, after a long period of little running or racing of any sort; ran the majority at sub-2:20 pace and walked much of the last two miles)

Age 30: 2:20:45; 2:19:31; 2:20:01 (all three within a ten-week period, the last was a sub-66 first half followed by a 74+ second half, which included some combination of running, limping, walking, and worse)

Age 32: 2:18:54.5

Age 41: 2:28:53

Progress came almost entirely from increasing volume and, perhaps to a lesser extent, intensity. Apparent plateaus in finishing times (particularly during my early 30s) were probably less a reflection of plateaus in ability than increasingly aggressive (and ultimately unachieved) goals and ill-timed injuries. I hoped to nail at least one really good race, but, for various reasons, that never worked out. My last marathon, at age 41, was a one-off attempt to see if better living, working, and training schedules could get me back to a good level of running (unadjusted for age), but I discovered that age and years away from the sport were too much to overcome, and it just didn't feel the same. That last marathon was almost twenty-five years ago. These days, I stay in reasonably good running condition (for a guy over 65), but it's hard to justify training for time or competitive goals; there's just too much else to do in life, which now seems too short.

As for your original question about talent versus grinding, I'm ambivalent. I had an extremely undistinguished running career in high school and college, but perhaps I had a specific talent in responding to my own very quirky (and pretty darn hard) training methods, which developed over years and without any coaches or training partners.

Laying all of this out causes me to rethink the eternal question of whether it was all worth it. For me, I think it was, but running has often been the most enjoyable and straightforward part of my life. And it still is, even as my reasons and motivations for it have evolved over the decades.

I don't really get the "talent versus grinding" debate. It's not an either/or kind of thing. Mostly "grinding" will show that you've got more talent than you once believed. I do think this happened for me and lots of others. That looks the case for you. But there are in really any activity people who show more aptitude for that activity than most others. If such people don't really grind all that much it is possible that a less talented grinder will do better than they do simply by outworking them. But if those people with more aptitude also do a consistent amount of grinding they're usually going to get the best results.

I never thought of myself as having any aptitude for running. Your comment about your progress coming almost entirely from increasing volume and to a lesser extent by increasing intensity is exactly my experience as well. In later years I've seen comments from people who consider the ability to do big training loads as a talent and if it is a talent then I suppose I did have running talent after all. I never thought of that as a talent but more a way of compensating for a lack of talent. Given that we really don't even know what talent for running really is I can't prove them wrong.

7 years before starting to run: 3:36 (no running training but other sports)
0.5 years after starting to run: 2:54
1.5 years after starting to run: 2:40
3.5 years after starting to run: 2:29
7.5 years after starting to run: 2:22
10 years after starting to run: 2:21

Before first and between first and starting to run, zero running training but always lots of different sports and no problems to play soccer for 3–4 hours straight, and was always good at running in school/tests. After starting to run, cut out most other sports and probably ran ~1 hour on average daily for ten years (with huge variations, but I think the average is pretty spot on).

2014- 2:54 (40-50 mpw no workouts)

2019 (spring) 2:45 (50-60 mpw no workouts)

2019 (fall) 2:31 (60mpw with quality workouts)

2020 (winter) 2:27 (80 mpw with quality workouts)

2022 (winter) 2:25 (80 mpw with quality workouts)

2022 (fall) 2:17 (110+ mpw with quality workouts)

A question within this awesome thread…

For those of you that have BQ’d, what type of yearly mileage would you say you averaged during your BQ years?

I’ve personally ran two full marathons:
Fall 2022- 3:38, Fall 2023- 3:42

Both marathons I severely cramped in my hamstrings. Fueling and muscle cramping is a massive hurdle for me at the marathon distance. My half marathon PB is 1:29:00 on the dot, and I ran that in Feb. 2023.

In 2022 and 2023 I hit 1400- 1500 total miles ran, thanks Garmin for tracking that.

Anyways, just curious about yearly miles ran from those of you fast BQ’ers out there!

I ran a lot of miles to get a lot of mediocre results...

2000 (22): Cincinnati Flying Pig 2:48 (calf trouble, walked/jog last 10k)

2001 (23): Cincinnati Flying Pig DNF (calf)

2002 (24): KY Derby Festival: 2:33:58

2003 (25): Rocket City: 2:37:38

2005 (27): Sunburst Marathon: 2:46:26

Chicago: 2:35:02

2006 (28): Chicago: 2:32:45

2007 (29): KY Derby Festival: 2:40:34

New York: 2:53

Hindsight being 20/20....I shoulda just ran Derby Festival and Chicago each year. I shoulda done a lot of things, but it is what it is.

Alan

The most miles I ever ran in a year (4800+) also coincided with a 500 mile February and another streak of 120+ in the late summer/fall.

Most training blocks over the years were similar: Increase mileage as much as possible, maintain as long as possible, then taper. Sometimes the highest weeks were 110 sometimes 120, most ever was 140. Workouts were typical stuff: Long runs. Progression runs. Hard runs. Tempo stuff. Marathon pace stuff. 5 x 1 mile hard. Tempo intervals like 4 x 3mi or 5 x 2mi. Always thought I could crack sub 2:30, never did but was close. Many times on sub 2:30 pace through 15, 18, 20 miles etc. *shrug*

Alan

I started the thread to see some inspirational progression from run of the mill marathon to impressive times. That said, I’ve enjoyed reading about the progression of people of all abilities so far. Really inspirational stuff.

By “talent” I meant college studs who graduated and OTQ’d their first marathon. That to me is not nearly as interesting as someone going from 4:30 down to 3:00 with hard work!

1. 2:01:53

2. 2:01:25

3. 2:00:35

For those of you that have run Boston, or qualified for any of the other major marathons, what was your yearly mileage during those BQ years?

2:38:04

2:31:18

ended it there

2012 - Boston 3:58:44, Cape Cod 3:25:20

2013 - Boston 3:23:54, Big Sur 3:28:35

2014 - Boston 3:21:11

2015 - Boston 2:58:08

2016 - Boston 2:52:52

2017 - Boston 2:50:58

2018 - Boston 2:58:06, Dublin 2:43:01

2019 - Boston 2:48:18, Cape Cod 2:39:42

2020 - Virtual Boston 2:49:30

2021 - Cheap 2:43:03, Boston 2:38:18

2022 - Boston 2:39:16

2023 - Boston 2:45:31, Cape Cod 2:52:40

Great job. Just curious: What changes did you make to see such improvement? A note about overall would be nice, but in 2014-2015 would be especially interesting, please.