From 1978, Grete Waitz might be a better example. Apparently, NY marathon was her first run longer than 12 miles.
There is probably also a reason she ran 8mins faster in later races😂
From an aerobic point of view there isn’t much reason to run longer than 90mins. The recovery time from longer effort isn’t worth it if you aren’t running a marathon. If you are running a marathon, it does help get the legs used to the pounding and helps a bit with getting used to burning a bit more fat.
I hold the opinion that mileage is super important in the mile-3k distance range but long run distance is entirely irrelevant.
You could get very very effing close to your potential with 7-8 mile runs/workouts and 5-6 mile doubles as long as you’re hitting 70+ mpw.
You want to stimulate your aerobic system very often but 13+ miles over a minute per mile slower than race pace isn’t doing anything special compared to what I highlighted above, you are working the wrong energy/muscular systems.
Bring me my downvotes.
I think what would be interesting is how he fairs from a mental point of view over the longer distance. Even if his shorter distance training would set him up fairly well for a quick marathon he’s never raced for more than approximately 30 minutes in one go. Actually racing for 4+ times that long would be a totally different ball game for him, especially regarding mindset. We have seen so many incredible world beaters at middle-long track distances step up to the marathon and really get knocked around in their first few marathons.
I hold the opinion that mileage is super important in the mile-3k distance range but long run distance is entirely irrelevant.
You could get very very effing close to your potential with 7-8 mile runs/workouts and 5-6 mile doubles as long as you’re hitting 70+ mpw.
You want to stimulate your aerobic system very often but 13+ miles over a minute per mile slower than race pace isn’t doing anything special compared to what I highlighted above, you are working the wrong energy/muscular systems.
Bring me my downvotes.
I think what would be interesting is how he fairs from a mental point of view over the longer distance. Even if his shorter distance training would set him up fairly well for a quick marathon he’s never raced for more than approximately 30 minutes in one go. Actually racing for 4+ times that long would be a totally different ball game for him, especially regarding mindset. We have seen so many incredible world beaters at middle-long track distances step up to the marathon and really get knocked around in their first few marathons.
Who says he ever wants to run a marathon? He might just decide to be world class on the track. He could even end up as the GOAT 1500-10000 runner and think why bother.
I hold the opinion that mileage is super important in the mile-3k distance range but long run distance is entirely irrelevant.
You could get very very effing close to your potential with 7-8 mile runs/workouts and 5-6 mile doubles as long as you’re hitting 70+ mpw.
You want to stimulate your aerobic system very often but 13+ miles over a minute per mile slower than race pace isn’t doing anything special compared to what I highlighted above, you are working the wrong energy/muscular systems.
Bring me my downvotes.
I think what would be interesting is how he fairs from a mental point of view over the longer distance. Even if his shorter distance training would set him up fairly well for a quick marathon he’s never raced for more than approximately 30 minutes in one go. Actually racing for 4+ times that long would be a totally different ball game for him, especially regarding mindset. We have seen so many incredible world beaters at middle-long track distances step up to the marathon and really get knocked around in their first few marathons.
This is true, I race mostly 400m-3k so I assumed mentally I was about as tough as they come, but the mental strain that comes around 20 miles into a marathon knowing you still have 30-40 minutes of racing to go is absolutely insane. Entirely different type of fitness and different mental game, it was really weird for me to not be feeling any lactic in the legs and being almost conversational with my breathing and also feeling like I needed to lay on the ground and accept my death at the same time.
That being said, I don’t know if I really buy the whole “Jakob will break every record 1500m-Marathon” hype, I get the idea that to be a worlds best talent in the 1500m you physically cannot be the worlds best talent in the Half/Marathon, I’d imagine it would be something like a 200/400 guy proclaiming he will also be taking a stab at the 800/1500m records later on in his career.
This post was edited 28 seconds after it was posted.
I’ve never seen more people care about one person’s training than I have with Jakob. What works for him might not work for you. I can totally see people doing only a 20k long run at lower mileage than Jakob and saying he’s the reason they should be doing this.
Yeah, it’s so crazy that the training of the best middle distance runner of our time is such a popular point of discussion on this running message board.
I’ve never seen more people care about one person’s training than I have with Jakob. What works for him might not work for you. I can totally see people doing only a 20k long run at lower mileage than Jakob and saying he’s the reason they should be doing this.
Yeah, it’s so crazy that the training of the best middle distance runner of our time is such a popular point of discussion on this running message board.
Right, especially when his training is entirely different than what other world class middle distance runners have done in the past, some could argue revolutionary, and it’s kept him much MUCH healthier than the majority of middle distance runners.
You do you Jakob I don’t care and am not interested I will continue doing hard speed workouts 3 times a week and spending half of my career injured basing my training off of the sports physiology knowledge we had back in the 1970s
From an aerobic point of view there isn’t much reason to run longer than 90mins. The recovery time from longer effort isn’t worth it if you aren’t running a marathon. If you are running a marathon, it does help get the legs used to the pounding and helps a bit with getting used to burning a bit more fat.
Really?
I have read in several places that there are adaptations (including mitochondrial changes and dense capillarization) that are more highly stimulated by a run 120 minutes or longer.
Who says he ever wants to run a marathon? He might just decide to be world class on the track. He could even end up as the GOAT 1500-10000 runner and think why bother.
I’ve never seen more people care about one person’s training than I have with Jakob. What works for him might not work for you. I can totally see people doing only a 20k long run at lower mileage than Jakob and saying he’s the reason they should be doing this.
Actually, what works for him IS working for an overwhelming majority of athletes right now. Would suggest you take the time to listen to Nordås as well as Haugen.
I’ve never seen more people care about one person’s training than I have with Jakob. What works for him might not work for you. I can totally see people doing only a 20k long run at lower mileage than Jakob and saying he’s the reason they should be doing this.
Training like Jakob would improve most average runners who can handle the training. Few will se as spectacular of results.
Acutely, I agree with you; but committing to 10 years of it would lead to vastly better results than they would otherwise achieve. Of course, this is just my opinion.
I think what would be interesting is how he fairs from a mental point of view over the longer distance. Even if his shorter distance training would set him up fairly well for a quick marathon he’s never raced for more than approximately 30 minutes in one go. Actually racing for 4+ times that long would be a totally different ball game for him, especially regarding mindset. We have seen so many incredible world beaters at middle-long track distances step up to the marathon and really get knocked around in their first few marathons.
This is true, I race mostly 400m-3k so I assumed mentally I was about as tough as they come, but the mental strain that comes around 20 miles into a marathon knowing you still have 30-40 minutes of racing to go is absolutely insane. Entirely different type of fitness and different mental game, it was really weird for me to not be feeling any lactic in the legs and being almost conversational with my breathing and also feeling like I needed to lay on the ground and accept my death at the same time.
That being said, I don’t know if I really buy the whole “Jakob will break every record 1500m-Marathon” hype, I get the idea that to be a worlds best talent in the 1500m you physically cannot be the worlds best talent in the Half/Marathon, I’d imagine it would be something like a 200/400 guy proclaiming he will also be taking a stab at the 800/1500m records later on in his career.
Have you ever heard of Rod Dixon? I don't think he was a world's best talent at 1500m or marathon, but he did pretty well at both distances. Actually, he might have been a world's best talent at all distances.
This is true, I race mostly 400m-3k so I assumed mentally I was about as tough as they come, but the mental strain that comes around 20 miles into a marathon knowing you still have 30-40 minutes of racing to go is absolutely insane. Entirely different type of fitness and different mental game, it was really weird for me to not be feeling any lactic in the legs and being almost conversational with my breathing and also feeling like I needed to lay on the ground and accept my death at the same time.
That being said, I don’t know if I really buy the whole “Jakob will break every record 1500m-Marathon” hype, I get the idea that to be a worlds best talent in the 1500m you physically cannot be the worlds best talent in the Half/Marathon, I’d imagine it would be something like a 200/400 guy proclaiming he will also be taking a stab at the 800/1500m records later on in his career.
Have you ever heard of Rod Dixon? I don't think he was a world's best talent at 1500m or marathon, but he did pretty well at both distances. Actually, he might have been a world's best talent at all distances.
a long run contributes nothing to the ability to run 56 second laps 4 times in a row. Absolutely nothing.
OK to test your theory let us take two runners of equal ability. Runner A does 10 x 200m with 200m jogs between each 3 times per week with a 1 mile warmup and cooldown. That is all the running he does. Runner B does the same PLUS he runs for 2 hours once per week. Who will race the faster mile?
a long run contributes nothing to the ability to run 56 second laps 4 times in a row. Absolutely nothing.
This poster has obviously never heard of Lydiard and his group of Olympic and world record holders in the 800m-marathon from New Zealand who all ran 100 miles per week.
a long run contributes nothing to the ability to run 56 second laps 4 times in a row. Absolutely nothing.
OK to test your theory let us take two runners of equal ability. Runner A does 10 x 200m with 200m jogs between each 3 times per week with a 1 mile warmup and cooldown. That is all the running he does. Runner B does the same PLUS he runs for 2 hours once per week. Who will race the faster mile?
You and the other poster know nothing. Neither of these training methods will get you to 4x56 in a row. You are comparing 18k a week on the track with 18k and a 20k+ run, as if there is no other way to train? That's ridiculous.
You can certainly run higher volume than 18k a week, without doing 20k of it all in one run. A miler can (and should) average 4000m total at race pace per workout, not 2000m. You can go on a 5k or 10k tempo run for extra volume. Above all, you have to get 400 speed quick enough that 56 is comfortable.
Lydiard picked "talents," runners who were already top-level material. And benefitted from a primitive, soft era with no testing. The "long run" mythos is a holdover from that era.
Yes, but he also had an afterthought, and laughed a little over himself, and added that in the (half- and full) marathon he would do as good as he can…
He clearly has a mindset that tells him to be the best in everything remotely possible, but he isn’t so stupid that he doesn’t allow himself some uncertainty when it comes to the longer distances.
OK to test your theory let us take two runners of equal ability. Runner A does 10 x 200m with 200m jogs between each 3 times per week with a 1 mile warmup and cooldown. That is all the running he does. Runner B does the same PLUS he runs for 2 hours once per week. Who will race the faster mile?
You and the other poster know nothing. Neither of these training methods will get you to 4x56 in a row. You are comparing 18k a week on the track with 18k and a 20k+ run, as if there is no other way to train? That's ridiculous.
You can certainly run higher volume than 18k a week, without doing 20k of it all in one run. A miler can (and should) average 4000m total at race pace per workout, not 2000m. You can go on a 5k or 10k tempo run for extra volume. Above all, you have to get 400 speed quick enough that 56 is comfortable.
Lydiard picked "talents," runners who were already top-level material. And benefitted from a primitive, soft era with no testing. The "long run" mythos is a holdover from that era.
You said a long run contributes NOTHING. This was the proof that you are an idiot. Nobody said the long run is mandatory. It is one option and you said it does nothing. Educate yourself kid. You are embarrassing yourself here.
You and the other poster know nothing. Neither of these training methods will get you to 4x56 in a row. You are comparing 18k a week on the track with 18k and a 20k+ run, as if there is no other way to train? That's ridiculous.
You can certainly run higher volume than 18k a week, without doing 20k of it all in one run. A miler can (and should) average 4000m total at race pace per workout, not 2000m. You can go on a 5k or 10k tempo run for extra volume. Above all, you have to get 400 speed quick enough that 56 is comfortable.
Lydiard picked "talents," runners who were already top-level material. And benefitted from a primitive, soft era with no testing. The "long run" mythos is a holdover from that era.
You said a long run contributes NOTHING. This was the proof that you are an idiot. Nobody said the long run is mandatory. It is one option and you said it does nothing. Educate yourself kid. You are embarrassing yourself here.
You are melting down at your keyboard, and think I'm embarrassed?
Nowhere did I imply long runs are merely not mandatory. I said they are useless, and they are.
They are useful for anger management though. Maybe it's that time of week for you.
