Rai Benjamin on the 800: "If I really wanted to… I think if I seriously ran it I could probably run 1:44." Fact or fiction?

maybe because wariner proved us all wrong?

How so? By running it once when he was past his prime?

So RB says if he trained for the 800m he could “probably” run 1:44. Yes he probably could, in the sense that he is like 6’3 and 170 with 44.21 and 46.17h credentials. However, RB has also run 10.03 and 19.99 so what we don’t know is whether someone who can run those short sprint times can be trained to sustain for 800m. I would not bet against him if he had a lot at stake. Of course there is a difference between 1:44:00 and 1:44.99 and I think the latter would probably be doable for him. On the other hand, I would not be shocked if he trained for it and the result was he could do 1:48 and 4:20 for the mile, meaning he slowed down a fair amount as the distance increased.

Thanks for sharing the interview!

I think an important argument in favor of Rai being able to run 1:44 is that he’s clearly quite talented aerobically based on the cycling. Not saying he’s going to join the tour but to immediately be able to ride 50+ miles at a decent clip has to be worth something.

And FWIW when Rai was a junior in high school he won a 600m at the armory in his sectional meet running 1:22.4.

If Karston Warholm said this, y'all would eat it up so bad.

I didn’t realize he was that lean either, I always picture him as a bit bigger of a sprinter. When Brazier was running his best he was 6’2 165 so that bodes well as far as physique goes.

I think people don’t realize just how fast twitch you need to be a good 800m runner, opening in 50-52 and having it be a sub-maximal effort means you need to have some very good speed and sprint strength compared to body size. Milers can usually be good at 5k/XC but 800m runners almost never are, but 800m runners often have a good 400m PB while true milers relatively don’t.

I think sprinters can be good at 800m, again, many can’t make it as good as their 200s and 400s but they can be good. There’s a really good 400/400h guy at Washington, I’m blanking on his name right now but his coach has him run 2-3 800s over the span of indoors/outdoors and he runs 1:47s and 1:48s. He has posted videos of his training too and he’s not a middle distance guy by any means. He rips his sprint training and faster distance stuff like 150 or 200 reps obviously but he did 8x400m in 70s or so and seemed gassed.

Cass Elliott is who you're thinking of at Washington and he's someone who does kind of throw a wrench in this. He's a sub 50 400 hurdler who did pick up the 800 and now he's run 1:46. I think that's the most interesting part of this question is all the "what if" because some may have this totally undiscovered talent for the two laps. Hell, Marcello Fiasconaro ran 1:43 in the 70s after being a rugby player most of his life and then training for the 400 for a few years.

Unfortunately, Rai is way too good at his primary event and other short sprints to ever incentivize trying this out. Honestly his sprint PRs do hint to me that he's more fast twitch and super fit rather than sitting on this crazy aerobic potential, unless he's ever talked about doing some notable endurance run. I remember there's an old thread on here where Canova talks about his early coaching days with Fiasconaro and how the dude would cruise with him on 10k distance runs in like 33 minutes and Canova saw right away that the guy was an 800 stud in the making.

I think he'd really only need to change 1 workout a week, after Indoors thru to July and he'd run 1:44 high. He could be as simple as missing a hurdles workout each week. Agree that the cycling shows that he has some endurance capabilities.

But why would he want to go from top 3 in the world to being outside the top 30 in an event at the risk of scarifying that top 3 status!

The big question is, “Would he run the 800 on pure hate?” I’d so, < 1:45 for sure.

“If so..”

Love it when people analyze physique to determine ability for 800m runners. From Coe to Rudisha there's a lot of variation. Id say shoe tech that helps achieve 18mph for 2 laps will happen sooner than any athlete gets there without it. So, Rai is correct. 1:44 is nothing compared to his 400IH performance. He's probably 70-30 or 65-35 aerobic to anaerobic. I dont think that helps much from 450-650m. Then the lactate threshold takes over. 1:47 at best. Id prefer to see him chisel another .5 sec over 10 hurdles.

Actually you proved the point that physique matters. Rudisha, who you used as being one of the larger 800m runners, was like 6’3 and 168, close to RB. The point is that you might see someone who is 200 lbs in the 100m but it would be exceedingly rare in the 800m, and probably unheard of at the elite level.

Silly subject line. Obvi fiction if he's never even attempted it.

I hope Rai avoids bicycling. Pro road cyclists frequently break bones. As I recall, 2011 Tour de France winner Cadel Evans fractured a collar bone three times in a year. Road cycling's risk : reward strikes me as unfavorable.

Exactly, it is a range, it’s a larger range than probably every running event but there’s definitely a weight class for 800m that excludes many sprinters and many 5k/10k guys to be optimal.

To me, Rudisha is THE 800m specimen when we are looking at physique. Tall, lean, muscular but not big. Some bodies need a bit more muscle to run optimally, some a bit less, but most athletes tend to have that type of physique.

If Benjamin is really only 170 that means his build wouldn’t be a problem for him. When I broke 1:50 I was a tad heavier and a tad shorter, and definitely wasn’t holding a speed/power advantage over him haha.

Id even imagine at the world class level, 400mh runners start having higher Vo2Maxes too, you gotta be using oxygen pretty darn well to run that fast for that long.

His only downfall would be that he’s just too fast twitched, but that’s preventing him from just running 40 mpw and hitting a 1:38, not necessarily stopping him from getting to 1:45-1:46. The problem is that it’s just not worth it to go train and do that, what does he want to do, place at D1 natties? That’s an awesome idea for just about everyone on these boards but it’s kind of kid stuff for him.

If Warholm said. "there's going to be no 800m in my future" I'd take him for his word too.

I don't think guys on this board comprehend how hard world-class 400m hurdles train. They are probably thinking of their college teammates who are sprinters.

I know a guy who has been a finalist in the Olympics, Worlds and European Champs and the way he trains he could run 1:45 no doubt. Serious distance work and hard hill workouts, nasty workouts, grind it out stuff, etc.

To run three rounds at that level in championships requires serious fitness. It is an exhausting event. I would say that next to decathletes they are the best overall athletes in track&field.

This too, i’ve often heard that as far as speed endurance and anaerobic endurance training goes, you are basically training your 400mh guys to race a flat 600m, as the hurdling obviously makes your running much less efficient than if you were racing a flat 400m. In a flat 400m you get the luxury of flailing around and running goofy from fatigue at the end of the race, with hurdles you only get to go as fast as you can get over those hurdles, so you need fantastic endurance maybe even moreso over speed in that final 100m

Felix Sanchez ran 44.90/47.25/1:48.99

Adam Steele, with a distance background, ran 44.57/1:49.22.

400m hurdlers are super fit, but it just doesn’t translate that well.

Juantorena is the only person I’m aware of who has run in the 44s and 143s. Anyone else run 44/144? Or even 45/144?