USATF's marathon selection rules are so stupid that C. Young could finish top 3 at Trials and not go to Paris even if US sends 3

Rojo might want to try reading that again

The part he keeps referring to about using the Road To Paris ranking applies only in case the trials fails to happen like a caststrophic event that prevents the start or finish of the event.

The bullets above is the text that states order of finish at trials is what will be used. In case a top 3 does not meet qual eligibility then the next finisher down the trials finish order and so on

Only thing of note in the USATF release is no one can chase a qualifier after the trials. This could lead to unintended consequences

I get it. And the Europeans dont' seem to also not understand why we are so passionate about whether the worlds 140th ranked marathoner is getting screwed. But the US OLYMPIC MARATHON TRIALS are the SOUL of the elite distance running in this country. The Trials are the d1 runner's Boston.

We started Letsrun when wejo was getting ready for the trials.

Are we complaining that they want athletes to hit a standard almost 11 minutes slower than the world record?

Yeah I have no clue how anyone can read it any differently. Rojo either can’t read or is trolling…

the first 3 finishers who have run a 2:11:30 are going if the US gets 3 slots.

Alternative scenario. US announces top 3 at the trials go if a 3rd spot is secured. A few no names finish top 3 at the trials due to a strategic race slower than 2:10. None have a shot at getting into the top 80. Since the trials purely determined the spots, all athletes outside the top 3 intentially quit their season, and our 3rd highest ranked athlete falls outside the top 80. We then only send two guys.

We need to incentivizing getting that 3rd spot too. So here is what I believe to be the optimal rule.

Optimal rule is the following

1. The top 2 at the trials go

2. The best finisher at the trials (outside the top 2) who is also in the top 80 gets the 3rd spot

This allows the third place finisher to "chace" getting into the top 80. If they do they automatically go. This also incentivises every one to run the trials and finish well in it. It also incentivises everyone who did decently in the trials to improve their ranking, thus helping the US get that 3rd spot. The last bit is crucial, if you don't incentivise people to chase, the US may not get that spot. The spot should go to one of the ahtletes that secured the 3rd US spot, just not the highest ranked one, but the highest placing finisher at the trials out of them instead.

If every man achieves the Olympic standard during the trials, does that mean all of them will qualify for the Olympics?

For sure, but maybe what Japan is doing makes sense? Either run Olympic standard or two marathon sub 2:10 (or something to make sure you're high in the ranking) then you're eligible for the trials. And there won't be any confusion whether top 3 are going; and maybe that process would force elevating US marathoning as well?

Do any of our resident linguists want to attempt to diagram this disaster of a sentence? What a mess rojo has composed.

Raccoons under the porch, locked out of the garage, all the 5th grade spelling mistakes…

The way I'm reading this Mantz and Young, as the only two "Qualified Athletes" (2:08:10 or top 64 on Jan. 30th), are guaranteed spots on the team so long as they're able to hobble across the finish line at trials:

The top three (3) place finishers for both the men and the women at the 2024 U.S. Olympic
Trials – Men’s and Women’s Marathon, February 3, 2024 (the “Selection Event”) will select
themselves via head-to-head competition for a position on the 2024 Olympic Games Team for
the 2024 Olympic Games, provided they are each a Qualified Athlete at the conclusion of the
Selection Event, as defined above...

...In each event, if an athlete declines to participate on the Team or is not a Qualified Athlete at the conclusion of the Selection Event, USATF will offer that position to the next highest placing Qualified Athlete finishing in the Selection Event, continuing in this order until the three positions and an alternate position for each event are filled.

As for the third spot, I interpret this the same as Rojo- if no one besides Mantz and Young breaks 2:08:10 at trials, it will simply go to the highest ranked trials finisher on May 5 regardless of the trials results.

In the case that USATF is not able to select a full team of Qualified Athletes from the Selection Event, or as outlined above in the case that the Selection Event does not occur or ends prematurely , the U.S. may earn up to three (3) quota positions in each gender category. The number of available quota positions will be determined after the Paris 2024 qualification period ends on May 5, 2024. The U.S. will fill any unfilled quota positions with Qualified Athletes based on their rank order on the Road to Paris rank list following the close of the qualification period on May 5, 2024.

Is there good prize money for trials? If I were Mantz or Young I might consider just jogging it and doing Boston or London as they'll probably have weaker than normal fields.

Dude...please....can you read and try and understand the effin rules for crap's sake.

I highly doubt it will go down this way. I think what they meant is that the third place finisher may not be qualified, so USATF won't attempt to use them as an entry. In this scenario all three would be qualified, two by ranking and one by standard, but they are all qualified. USATF didn't come out and say "The third qualifier will be the highest ranked runner if the highest ranked runner isn't in the top 2". As long as you're third and you're qualified you will go.

USATF says "in the case USATF is not able to select a full team of Qualified Athletes from the Selection event...the US may earn up to 3 quota positions in each gender category...The US will fill any unfulfilled quota positions with Qualified Athletes based on their rank order on the Road to Paris list rank list following the close of the qualification period on May 5."

Well the US can't select a full team of Qualified Athletes from the selection event if the US has only unlocked two spots at the conclusion of the selection event. If their policy was, "we'll select the top three under 2:11:30 at the trials as long as we have three spots," why wouldn'd they say that? Why would they add the addendum about quota positions?

Gault, stop trying to cover for Rojo. He’s bad at this.

you’re not much better, btw. All of your disgraceful racist tweets about Sha’Carri

No, "qualified" has a very specific definition in this case - top 64 world ranking on Jan. 30th or sub 2:08:10 which must be achieved before or at Trials. Unless Fauble somehow gets bumped up a spot in the rankings, or it's unseasonably cool at Orlando and by some miracle someone runs 2:08:10, the Trials results are completely meaningless. Mantz and Young are in, third spot is picked by next best world ranking on May 5th.

I wouldn't be surprised to Fauble, Rupp, or Chelanga run Houston and go for 2:08:10. If only one of them does it they'd automatically be on the team.

The marathon trials in Pittsburgh or Birmingham?

Okay LETSRUN experts how did those trials go?
Very interested in how your vast marathon experience shaped your marathon knowledge?

Nope.

Agree, we should follow Japan's model. 2+ method. Two earn, one selected.

The first 3 finisher at the Olympic Trials that have run under 2:11:30 or do at the trials will be the Olympic Team. The first 2 will be announced at the trials. The 3rd may have to wait until May 8th, but will be on the team. Nothing else matters.