Who's going to play defense on these teams? It will just be 5 guys fighting over who gets to shoot.
This. Making a team is different from combining the best five players. Especially since defense is more about your worst link, while offense is more about your best one. And on offense, the guys you're playing with are so, so good that being a high volume, moderate efficiency scorer isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that most of the very top guys (including Lebron and MJ) fit that description. To succeed on this superteam, what these players really need to do is learn to become role players, which is very much not something the GOATs do on a daily basis. A player like Duncan or Kareem could be an exception. Maybe Chris Paul makes the starting 5 because while he's not one of the best 5 players of all time, he seems to make any team he's on better, and that's the skill needed here.
My best guess is that both MJ and Lebron make the team because they're strong defenders and decent percentage shooters and just so incredible at basketball that they wouldn't cancel each other out too much. But I wouldn't be surprised if the best possible team of all time looked VERY different from a list of the best players.
If we were to assemble the best U.S. basketball team of all-time. I like L Bird on the team but coming off the bench. Kobe & Bird or Bird & Kobe would be 6th or 7th man. Don't just look at stats. Bird was slow and couldn't jump.
This is about what would theoretically be the most effective five-man pairing possible, not the five greatest players at their respective positions, right?
I know this is a thought experiment but even so, you gotta account for things like floor spacing and efficacy of guys when they don't have the ball in their hands.
Curry, Jordan, LeBron, Duncan, and Walton could be fun. Some exceptional ball movement, a could of all-time defenders, and the ability to play with pace or slow things down and grind out half-court sets or go iso.
This is about what would theoretically be the most effective five-man pairing possible, not the five greatest players at their respective positions, right?
I know this is a thought experiment but even so, you gotta account for things like floor spacing and efficacy of guys when they don't have the ball in their hands.
Curry, Jordan, LeBron, Duncan, and Walton could be fun. Some exceptional ball movement, a could of all-time defenders, and the ability to play with pace or slow things down and grind out half-court sets or go iso.
If I had a 12 man all-time team, I don't know if Walton makes the team. Some nights I would start Duncan and some nights not. Curry is a liability on defense. Jordan needs Pippen starting with him even though Pippen is not a top 5 all-time player. Think defense. Sometimes, it is most important to have great defenders on the court.
Who's going to play defense on these teams? It will just be 5 guys fighting over who gets to shoot.
This. Making a team is different from combining the best five players. Especially since defense is more about your worst link, while offense is more about your best one. And on offense, the guys you're playing with are so, so good that being a high volume, moderate efficiency scorer isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that most of the very top guys (including Lebron and MJ) fit that description. To succeed on this superteam, what these players really need to do is learn to become role players, which is very much not something the GOATs do on a daily basis. A player like Duncan or Kareem could be an exception. Maybe Chris Paul makes the starting 5 because while he's not one of the best 5 players of all time, he seems to make any team he's on better, and that's the skill needed here.
My best guess is that both MJ and Lebron make the team because they're strong defenders and decent percentage shooters and just so incredible at basketball that they wouldn't cancel each other out too much. But I wouldn't be surprised if the best possible team of all time looked VERY different from a list of the best players.
Good post. You need a few great players without great egos (but prime Jordan and prime Lebron were so good that their enormous egos are justifiable). A team with Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Wilt and Shaq for example would have issues.
I’m torn on Steph Curry: on one hand he’s an average defender who can be bullied by offensive stars, on the other he would be an incredible offensive weapon on a team with other offensive stars like Jordan and Lebron (so defenses can’t focus on limiting Steph). I also believe he’d be willing to play his ideal role without complaint.
The flip side would be a guy like Gary Payton—imagine pairing him with Jordan as your perimeter defense. But it seems stupid to not include a couple ace 3-point shooters on this team. Analytics aren’t everything, but 3>2.
Ok I know some people will think this is dumb but I’ll go:
Steph Curry
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett (faster than Duncan, better offensively than Russell, both of whom I considered)
Nikola Jokic
Any defensive weaknesses of Curry and Jokic (which are overstated for both players, I think) can be covered by the other 3, particularly Jordan and Garnett, both DPOYs. Some will scoff at Jokic’s inclusion but they’re not paying attention—he’s absurdly valuable and a true team-first player. What you miss out on in Magic’s playmaking is more than made up for by having Lebron and Jokic on the team.
If you insisted on replacing Jokic with a more defensive minded center (has anyone mentioned Hakeem?), then I’d suggest moving Lebron to PF and bringing in someone like a healthy 2019 Kawhi Leonard at SF—basically the ultimate 3-and-D guy, like a better shooting Scottie Pippen.
Agreeing with letshoop here - we've already seen something close to the best team:
Dennis Rodman (not a joke - your scorers get more second chances per possession with Rodman than with any other player in history - you could trade Rodman for Barkley if you want)
Jordan
Pippen
(best non-big defensive duo ever)
Curry (obv not for his defense, but for what he does to opposing defenses)
Jokic (not as bad on defense as some say, at his peak (current form) possibly the best court vision ever - I take curry over magic with Jokic on the team)
32 rings between these guys. Ignorant to go with Wilt over Kareem. Ignorant to go with Curry over Magic. Wishful thinking to include Larry Bird at all
Would teammates and coaches Wilt C respected possibly modify Wilt's off the court hedonistic behavior? If so, Wilt over Kareem. If Kareem and Wilt were teammates, sometime I would start Kareem and sometime I would start Wilt.
This is about what would theoretically be the most effective five-man pairing possible, not the five greatest players at their respective positions, right?
I know this is a thought experiment but even so, you gotta account for things like floor spacing and efficacy of guys when they don't have the ball in their hands.
Curry, Jordan, LeBron, Duncan, and Walton could be fun. Some exceptional ball movement, a could of all-time defenders, and the ability to play with pace or slow things down and grind out half-court sets or go iso.
If I had a 12 man all-time team, I don't know if Walton makes the team. Some nights I would start Duncan and some nights not. ****Curry is a liability on defense. **** Jordan needs Pippen starting with him even though Pippen is not a top 5 all-time player. Think defense. Sometimes, it is most important to have great defenders on the court.
Who's going to play defense on these teams? It will just be 5 guys fighting over who gets to shoot.
This. Making a team is different from combining the best five players. Especially since defense is more about your worst link, while offense is more about your best one. And on offense, the guys you're playing with are so, so good that being a high volume, moderate efficiency scorer isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that most of the very top guys (including Lebron and MJ) fit that description. To succeed on this superteam, what these players really need to do is learn to become role players, which is very much not something the GOATs do on a daily basis. A player like Duncan or Kareem could be an exception. Maybe Chris Paul makes the starting 5 because while he's not one of the best 5 players of all time, he seems to make any team he's on better, and that's the skill needed here.
My best guess is that both MJ and Lebron make the team because they're strong defenders and decent percentage shooters and just so incredible at basketball that they wouldn't cancel each other out too much. But I wouldn't be surprised if the best possible team of all time looked VERY different from a list of the best players.
Chris Paul over Jordan. Got it. This is simply one of the most ridiculous takes ever.
Wilt or Kareem could be a toss up. If I was drafting a player to build a franchise around it would be Kareem no question. Very high peak and incredible longevity, great teammate. But with Chamberlain's at his best, there's just nobody period who's ever been so athletic, and a 34 year old Chamberlain was roughly even with prime Kareem when they matched up in the playoffs.
Personally I think any team like this that doesn't have Bird on it is missing out. He was one of the very best passers period and he didn't need to dominate the ball to be an effective passer, he could score 40 whenever he wanted but was happy scoring 10, he was a great rebounder and good team defender, on this type of team I'd have to put him at the 4 though. I have a hard time excluding Hakeem Olajuwon personally but totally understand someone picking Kareem or Wilt or Shaq someone of that caliber. MJ is non negotiable. Point guard wise you'd want to have someone that wasn't shoot first, Magic is the obvious choice but I also like Stockton, less versatile but a much better defender, up for debate there are plenty of really great point guards. I have no lock for that spot I've left open at the 3. I also understand I've shown bias in eras here but that's my personal preference and can appreciate players further back such as Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Walt Frazier and more modern players like Chris Paul LeBron James etc.
Whats crazy is that three of them were on the 92’ Olympic dream team
Larry is a legend, but there’s no universe where he starts over Lebron. Same with Wilt over Kareem. Swap out those two, and even though Magic is still the best PG all-time, Curry gets an HM because the lineup would 100% need shooting (if they were playing aliens or something) and he’s the best shooter ever.