Training with the POSE method

Yes, gravity is still pulling you down. However your body is moving forward, or in which ever direction you allow your body weight to fall. Make sense yet?

GCM is your General Center of Mass. The area of your body from your lower hips to your belly button.

"Now, allow yourself to fall forward into the wall. What makes this happen?"

Me leaning toward the wall.

"You release all your muscle efforts and began to free fall forward towards the wall because of gravity."

I free fall DOWN because of gravity. My legs, if actually released of muscle effort would just collapse and I would crash DOWN on to the floor.

"Okay, following me so far?

No.

This is the exact same thing that happens when one is running."

No. You exert force with a FORWARD vector and a VERTICAL vector. You do not fall forward.

Haven't you ever done the "bullet thing" in physics. The one where the horizontal force is the same but the angle is changed? DOn't they end up in the same place?

I am sorry were all idiots and you are the smart. Enjoy your running!

Of course there is some pressure to keep you up. Take a pencil and set it at about 10 degrees off 90 on your desk. Let the pencil fall. Watch how the middle of the pencil moves forward (and down). If the pencil had the ability to catch it self, it would run right off your desk.

JHUFFMAN,

I am not trying to bash you or the pose method, i just have a couple of questions that i hope you can clear up for me.

"The runner then changes the pose from one leg to the other by falling forward and allowing gravity to do the work. The support foot is pulled from the ground to allow the body to fall forward, while the other foot drops down freely, in a change of support." (posetech.com)

If the foot is just "pulled away from the ground" then there is no horizontal foward force or vertical upwards force generated.

If I am correct, the pose method teaches us to land on the balls of the feet and that the heel should not touch the ground. If the heel is not permitted to touch the ground we can not fully utilize the stertch reflex of the achilles to swing our leg through. It also puts an enormous amount of stress on the lower leg muscles.

I would also like to know names of top runners who have form similiar to the form taught by pose coaches, so I can maybe get a better understanding of it.

Thank you

physics dummy wrote:

Wouldn't gravity cause you to fall down (i.e. vertically) rather than forward (horizontally)?

Do not make the mistake of taking the laws of physics too literally. I am currently using the POSE method to fly for distances up to 30 meters.

JHaskins: I was just wondering if you were related to me. You probably remember me for my memorable portrayal of HS principal, Mr. Belding.

POSE is the perpetual motion machine of running.

physics dummy wrote:

Wouldn't gravity cause you to fall down (i.e. vertically) rather than forward (horizontally)?

not trying to take any sides or anything, and i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic haha, but falling forwards is not horizontal motion. It's rotational motion. Gravity causes some torque blah blah. In this case, the feet are the center of rotation. Or you could think of it this way: if his head at position 2(when he is say midway to have fallen to the ground) is vertically lower than his head position at position 1 (when his head has not yet moved/fallen) then he HAS fallen downwards due to gravity or whatever force.

crap, my start menu was covering up the bottom of the browser so I couldnt see the "next page" link where explanations about all that falling forward stuff are. I didn't know that there was another page. Sorry for the repeat answer guys. Ignore my previous post. Keep debating! WOO!

Jhuffman wrote:

Yes, gravity is still pulling you down. However your body is moving forward, or in which ever direction you allow your body weight to fall. Make sense yet?

isn't that momentum?

This is on the pose website, under Romanov's bio

http://www.posetech.com/pose_method/aboutdr.html

"Unless you are one of the lucky ones, like Haile Gebrselassie, Jessie Owens, Emil Zatopek, Jim Ryan, Steve Prefontaine, or Michael Johnson, who were born with the perfect technique, you have to practice."

You got to kidding me. Zatopek could have possibly the worst form ever, he trained harder than everyone else and pulled off his amazing double in 48.

From wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zatopek

"Zátopek's running style was distinctive and very much at odds with what was considered to be an efficient style at the time. His head would often roll, face contorted with effort, while his torso swung from side to side. He often wheezed and panted audibly while running, which earned him the nickname of "the Czech Locomotive". When asked about his alarming facial expressions, Zátopek is said to have replied that "It isn't gymnastics or ice-skating, you know"."

If pose tries to claim him as the poster boy for form, they are off their rockers.

Here is the real deal response.

I have never or prob will never look into the POSE method of running. I run all the time thinking about my own form, and things that I have been taught by world class sprinting coaches, but I have never researched POSE at all.

But the people bashing the POSE method are the real idiots, bc form is actually just as important as the miles you run and i'm sure all POSE is is just to try to get you to run with proper form.

PS.

if you can't understand why a forward lean helps out your running(free falling), without a science explanation, just quit the sport, cause you don't and will never have the proper form to run at an even semi-elite level.

wetre wrote:

bc form is actually just as important as the miles you run and i'm sure all POSE is is just to try to get you to run with proper form.

But from what I've read, the form they are trying to teach isn't 'proper' and appears to violate fundamental physical laws. I don't think good intentions is any get out of jail free card when it comes to affecting people's training.

if you can't understand why a forward lean helps out your running(free falling), without a science explanation, just quit the sport, cause you don't and will never have the proper form to run at an even semi-elite level.

I don't know why this has to be explained over and over again, but there is no gain from 'free falling' or 'letting gravity pull you forward'.

Gravity always and will always act only in a downward direction. Any and all forward motion must result from a force in the opposite direction (ie parallel to the ground and perpindicular to the direction of gravity).

When you lean forward, gravity pulls your center of mass straight down. By not letting your legs relax, you are applying a force to the ground through your feet. Since you are no longer perpindicular to the ground, a component of this force is parallel to the ground and acts against the friction under your feet to cause your center of mass to move forward as it also moves down.

At some point, you need to get your feet in front of your center of mass to apply a force that will both counter gravity and raise your center of mass as well as propel yourself in a forward direction.

Every little bit of height lost by gravity pulling you down must be regained by pushing yourself back up. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

I would say JHuffman know alittle about running. He has gone under 4 for the mile. So do your thing bro. By the way I'm from LA. also.

LIKE I SAID

IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND HOW FREEFALLING HELPS YOU IT'S B/C YOU HAVE NEVER RAN PROPERLY AND THE ONLY EXPLANATION YOU HAVE AGAINST IT IS 'SCIENCE'

YOU DUMB HILLYBILLY MOFO, GO OUTSIDE AND RUN, THAN, IF IT ISN'T TO HARD, PULL YOUR SHOULDERS DOWN AND BACK, PUSH YOUR CHEST FORWARD, SLIGHTLY LEAN FORWARD, TIGHTEN YOUR ABS, AND PULL YOUR ASS WHILE YOU RUN.

YOU CAN'T COMPREHEND GOOD FORM! IT IS b/c YOU HAVE NEVER RAN WITH PROPER FORM BEFORE AND YOUR MUSCLES ARE NOW TO WEAK WHEN IT COMES TO RUNNING PROPERLY. YOUR FORWARD MOMENTUM IS OFF AND YOUR BODY IS TO ACCUSTOMED TO RUNNING IMPROPERLY. YOU HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BEFORE YOU EVER TRY TO RUN FAST. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THE POWER IN YOUR FORM TO RUN SUB4.

RESPOND HOW YOU LIKE, BUT I SPEAK ONLY THE TRUTH.

I DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE POSE METHOD, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO RUNNING, w/o FORM, YOU SHOULD JUST QUIT THE SPORT.

THIS ISN'T 1970, this is 2006, YOU NEED TO RUN WITH A LITTLE BIT BETTER FORM TO EVEN TRY TO COMPETE WITH ELG OR GEB or LAGAT. TRUST ME, THESE GUYS DON'T RUN NOT ONE STEP!!!! WITHOUT COMPLETE FOCUS ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

I don't really care if you don't agree with me, keep plodding your miles out and try to beat me while you take three strides to my one in a race b/c you don't have correct power. It's just facts man.

Well if it is written in ALL CAPS, then it MUST be true.

But rather than rant and attempt to denigrate 'science' in the same manner Creationists do, how about pointing out the specific flaws in basic Newtonian mechanics I covered in the previous post?

Why can't you do that?

While you're re-reading my explanation, try and figure out where I said there shouldn't be any forward lean. Of course there will forward lean and any picture of a world class athlete will show that their center of mass is ahead of their contact with the ground.

But I'd be really interested in any explanation you can provide about this apparent perpetual energy to be derived from 'free falling' in running. It's Friday and always a good time for some humour.

Isn't it funny how people can say how "science and coe is bullshit", but then when it comes to help their case as in this, thay are so quick to use science as an excuse.

Like Lydiard cant be explained scienctifically against Coe, I can't explain how freefalling works to a weak legged horrible form fake ass runner as yourself. But i'm sure there is some science major who can. But jesus, use common sense, look at the top athletes in general run, football, soccer, ect, FORWARD MOMENTUM, SIMILAR FORM!!!!