NCAA Rules on Running Unattached

The rules are much stricter than a lot of wishful thinkers - some of whom are coaches - want to know. At the same time, there are a number of increasingly grey areas that create confusion. But, one thing I assure you, if you are trying to redshirt, don't run in any meet where there is scoring between universities. Do some coaches violate that rule and get away with it? Yes, but if they get called for it, there will be trouble.

Dude,

The rule is simple. If it is team scored, you can't run unattached without losing a year of eligibility. It has nothing to do with whether or not the meet officials let you into the meet or not. If there are teams who are scoring against each other, you cannot run unattached without losing eligibility.

There is another little known rule that if there is one large team score (one score for all the teams), you cannot dual meet within that scoring and count the meet as more than one competition. For instance, you have five teams and you have all five teams figuring into the team score...you cannot double-dual within that and count it as two competitions for the NCAA minimum of 6 competitions.

Also, for a meet to be countable for NCAA Division I competition, you must have over 50% of the teams being NCAA Division I schools when there is a team score. Unless, you have seperate scoring for NCAA Division I within the meet. If so, it can only count as on date of competition.

Basically, there are a lot of rules. Many more than most coaches assume. You have to really dig to find these rules too.

No matter what, plain and simple, if the meet has a team score and you are trying to run unattached so you can redshirt, you cannot run in the team scored race. Many invitationals have an Open race that is not team scored and you can run in that race. But it has to be seperate from the team scored race.

The girl from North Carolina State is going to have to give up that season of eligibility if anyone calls them out on it. If nobody cares, no harm no foul. However, if she becomes anything near her twin sister and figures into the team scoring in that 5th year at NCAA's, you can bet that someone they beat is going to call them out for using an ineligible athlete!

Brain Surgeon, I think your wrong about your definition of OPEN EVENT. Here is the clarification set forth by the NCAA in 2001 about this issue. Particularly note the line about redshirts being eligible (including an "open" event in which the collegiate competitors receive expenses from and/or score points for their respective institutions)

The NCAA News -- October 8, 2001

Legislative assistance

2001 Column No. 21

Open Events

Institutions should note that in order for a student-athlete who is seeking to "redshirt" to avoid using a season of competition (or for an ineligible student-athlete to avoid competing in violation of NCAA regulations and using a season of competition), the student-athlete may not participate in any event that meets the definition of "intercollegiate competition" in Bylaw 14.02.6.

However, a student-athlete seeking to redshirt or an ineligible student-athlete (for example, partial qualifier or nonqualifier serving a year-in-residence) may compete as an individual in an "open" event involving collegiate and noncollegiate competitors without using a season of competition (including an "open" event in which the collegiate competitors receive expenses from and/or score points for their respective institutions), provided the student-athlete represents only himself or herself, pays all of his or her own travel and competition expenses, does not wear any institutional uniforms or use any institutional equipment and does not score points for the institution. Therefore, if a student-athlete were to receive expenses from his or her institution to travel to and compete as an individual in an "open" event with the institution's team, the student-athlete would be deemed to have engaged in intercollegiate competition and to have used a season of competition (and, in the case of an ineligible partial qualifier or nonqualifier, to have competed in violation of NCAA rules), even if the student-athlete did not score points for the institution or wear the institution's uniform.

In order for a competition to be considered an "open" event, the competition must be open to noncollegiate competitors and must be organized, publicized and operated as an event that is open to individuals other than collegiate competitors. Pursuant to an official interpretation [reference: 5/8/95, Item No. 1], a student-athlete who participates in an open lane as part of a collegiate competition (for example, a dual meet) is considered to be representing the institution against outside competition, regardless of whether the student-athlete's performance is included in the scoring of the competition. For example, if five institutions competed in an invitational cross country meet or swim meet that was open only to those institutions, the competition would not be considered an "open" event. If a redshirt student-athlete or an ineligible student-athlete from any of the five participating institutions were permitted to compete in the meet (even as an "unattached" participant not scoring points for his or her institution), the student-athlete would be considered to have engaged in intercollegiate competition under Bylaw 14.02.6 and would be charged with the use of a season of competition. In addition, if the student-athlete were an ineligible partial qualifier or nonqualifier, the student-athlete would be considered to have engaged in intercollegiate competition in violation of NCAA rules.

This material was provided by the NCAA membership services staff as an aid to member institutions. Institutions may direct questions regarding this column to Damani Leech or Brad Hostetter at the NCAA national office.

So, the grey area is whether an event was "open" or "collegiate". To be open an event "must be organized, publicized and operated as an event that is open to individuals other than collegiate competitors." In other words, you can't just open up a collegiate meet to a few individuals and thereby call it an open meet. Those who try to skirt this rule may wind up getting burned by it in the end.

She is fine...it was an open race. There were many people in the race that where not college runners. Noteably Carly Matthews, a high school runner, who qualified for footlocker.

It get's tiring to see ignorant college coaches more concerned with trying to nail someone for doing what is in fact legal instead of taking care of their own program. There is one coach in our area that makes this same complaint every year about other program's runners and has to be corrected each year. These big time programs with depth are run by coaches that know what they are doing and wouldn't risk their athlete's eligibility without knowing the rules. I wish these coaches making these allegations would identify their programs. I'd wager they've squandered a fair amount of distance talent in their programs.

"Scoring a meet with post-collegiates in it happens all of the time."

That is correct, but, by definition, post-collegiates no longer have any collegiate eligibility to lose...

I'm discussing the rule to give people a "heads up" - trying to figure out the convoluted rules of the NCAA is no easy task. As you probably know, the rules and/or their interpretations are changed from time to time. Discussing the tough ones is a good protection for both coach and athlete.

The issue summarized:

A "redshirting" collegian may compete in a cross country race that is scored for a collegiate competition wwithout losing eligibility if:

1) The collegian receives no assistance in the form of transportation, equipment, money, or meals etc.

and

2) The race is open to non-collegians.

I'm not sure of your point.

Also by definition, a meet with post-collegiates in it is then not a collegiate meet, and redshirts wouldn't lose eligibility if they paid their own way and wore their own clothes. That was all I was saying.

I don't believe that a meet with post-collegians in it by itself protects the redshirt. I think that the status of what an open meet is can be found is outlined in the NCAA "In order for a competition to be considered an 'open' event, the competition must be open to noncollegiate competitors and must be organized, publicized and operated as an event that is open to individuals other than collegiate competitors." I think that Mt. SAC, for example, is organized, publicized, and operated as an event that is open to individuals other than collegiate competitors. But a tri meet among colleges that simply lets one post collegian in does not constitute an open meet. If I'm wrong on that, I'd like to know, because all that would be needed then to open a lane up for a redshirt athlete to participate in any collegiate event is one non collegian to also be allowed to participate.

The interpretation I once got when I was DII Coach was that

1) The meet had to not be scored

2) It had to have the word OPEN in the title of the meet

3) It had to be advertised as an open meet to anyone

4) The athlete had to pay their own entry fee

5) The athlete had to pay their own transportation

6) The athlete had to pay for their own food

7) The athlete could not wear school uniform

If ALL of those criteria were met, then OK.

No, you're right. It has to be publicly an "open" meet. Your one lane example is specifically given by the NCAA stuff posted earlier as NOT qualifying as officially an open meet.

Mt. SAC isn't scored, is it? Which also gets folks off the hook.

Geez, by the time this thread runs down, we'll have a bunch of experts. One one NCAA rule.

I've always been told that once you compete with jersey for during a season for the institution you can't go back.

For instance

(Not Allowed)

Race January 10th for UCLA

Race January 17th UNATTACHED

Race January 24th for UCLA (Not Allowed)

(Allowed)

Race January 10th UNATTACHED

Race January 17th for UCLA

Race January 24th for UCLA