Eliud "Frank Abagnale" Kipchoge
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Yawn again wrote:
Don't you get tired of this narrative ? Initially you were objective on this topic.Are you joking?
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Coevett wrote:
Before Kiptum, he coached the Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, winner of the important Rotterdam marathon and 4e in Chicago in 2018. Alas, Kipkemoi was suspended for two years for doping with a beta-blocker in 2020, a reduced sanction, the anti-doping having retained a ” neglect “ in medical treatment. “Unlike Kiptum, he was not disciplined”regrets Gervais Hazikimana.
“Doping is everywhere in Kenya, he laments. But it is mainly the clumsy ones who are caught, victims of a lack of education and information. »I read the article (and quote) in the original French and that's not what he said. Once again we have Coevett distorting facts like he always does.
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Really? Do your due diligence and look at how many Kenyans are currently suspended for cheating. As Donald would say, '... many many...'.
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^ We like cold, hard numbers where I'm from. Trends. How many at this point this year compared to last year? The measures are working and pretty soon, Kenya will be the only country that will be able to state with certainty that they've eliminated the problem.
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Introduce stricter penalties for doping.
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El Keniano wrote:
^ We like cold, hard numbers where I'm from. Trends. How many at this point this year compared to last year? The measures are working and pretty soon, Kenya will be the only country that will be able to state with certainty that they've eliminated the problem.
That's not how it works.
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El Keniano wrote:
pretty soon, Kenya will be the only country that will be able to state with certainty that they've eliminated the problem.
You obviously aren't too bright. It's not possible for any country to completely eliminate the problem.
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Kiptum drinks 500ml beetroot juice per day.
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Kiptum drinks a liter of nucalm before bed and is like a new man in the morning!
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Coevett wrote:
Before Kiptum, he coached the Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, winner of the important Rotterdam marathon and 4e in Chicago in 2018. Alas, Kipkemoi was suspended for two years for doping with a beta-blocker in 2020, a reduced sanction, the anti-doping having retained a ” neglect “ in medical treatment. “Unlike Kiptum, he was not disciplined”regrets Gervais Hazikimana.
“Doping is everywhere in Kenya, he laments. But it is mainly the clumsy ones who are caught, victims of a lack of education and information. »Sure they’re doping, and so are the top Americans. If you took the PEDS out of the equation, the Kenyans would still be faster. Though times across the board at the elite level would be slower.
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not quite is it wrote:
Thank you, but now you are adding 2021, and your link does not say that those 10 are the "most common busts". Obviously there were more a lot more than 20 cases in 2021 and 2022 combined. So you appear to be the "confused" one, or the one engaging in propaganda.
Between cases under appeal, sorting out provisional vs. in-place bans, AIU vs. ADAK bans etc. I don't really have the energy to definitively prove my point. Nor do you. But in following, Tri Acetone + Whereabouts + Bizarre substances represent more bans especially on lower-tier athletes than Testosterone (fairly common), Nandrolone (fairly common), EPO (pretty rare), ABP (more high profile, but I think 2 cases total in 2023). You can bring numbers to the table if you disagree.
If you isolate to the biggest names, yes it's more a mix of Whereabouts/ABP/EPO/Testosterone. Reason being, these athletes are probably better-informed and trying to dope more effectively than taking an anti-inflammatory solely banned on raceday. Anyhow, not sure why you think this is propoganda. Ekiru's idiotic/profligate doping seems more an outlier among the top athletes. The biggest bust being ABP violations (Kipruto, Kwemoi), Cherono/Kipserem/Kacheran (PEDs we've heard of).32 -
Yawn again wrote:
Don't you get tired of this narrative ? Initially you were objective on this topic. But nowadays you have just gone on an anti-kenyan tangent that clearly carries racist undertones. It is quite obvious to many of us that you have lost your objectivity on this matter. If you have to keep singing this song atleast try and be more objective.Great "academic" rant - using all the classic smoke and mirror words you think sound smart like "narrative" and "objectivity".
This is not an example of an exercise in narrative and objectivity - Kiptums coach literally said those words. You can interpret it however you want to, but in the OP there is no interpretation given of what those words mean.
The real bane are people like you who come up with these little techniques to get away from the real issue at hand. It doesn't matter what was said it's racism to report it? Is it racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned? Just f--k off.
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Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Yawn again wrote:
Don't you get tired of this narrative ? Initially you were objective on this topic. But nowadays you have just gone on an anti-kenyan tangent that clearly carries racist undertones. It is quite obvious to many of us that you have lost your objectivity on this matter. If you have to keep singing this song atleast try and be more objective.Great "academic" rant - using all the classic smoke and mirror words you think sound smart like "narrative" and "objectivity".
This is not an example of an exercise in narrative and objectivity - Kiptums coach literally said those words. You can interpret it however you want to, but in the OP there is no interpretation given of what those words mean.
The real bane are people like you who come up with these little techniques to get away from the real issue at hand. It doesn't matter what was said it's racism to report it? Is it racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned? Just f--k off.
The person you are responding to is 100% right, and they never said it is racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned. Learn to read, and then you just fvck off.
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Lucas Tanner wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Sure they’re doping, and so are the top Americans. If you took the PEDS out of the equation, the Kenyans would still be faster. Though times across the board at the elite level would be slower.
Did your Jeff Tallon account get banned?
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Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Great "academic" rant - using all the classic smoke and mirror words you think sound smart like "narrative" and "objectivity".
This is not an example of an exercise in narrative and objectivity - Kiptums coach literally said those words. You can interpret it however you want to, but in the OP there is no interpretation given of what those words mean.
The real bane are people like you who come up with these little techniques to get away from the real issue at hand. It doesn't matter what was said it's racism to report it? Is it racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned? Just f--k off.
Absolutely right. We've had 20 doping threads speculating about Kiptum, so it's obviously noteworthy that his coach should say something like this, and worth posting about here so we can discuss what he meant.
These posters who use the race card so liberally when it comes to Kenyan doping speculation likely have some investment in the continued exploitation and drugging of young East African athletes.
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13
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Coevett wrote:
Absolutely right. We've had 20 doping threads speculating about Kiptum, so it's obviously noteworthy that his coach should say something like this, and worth posting about here so we can discuss what he meant.
These posters who use the race card so liberally when it comes to Kenyan doping speculation likely have some investment in the continued exploitation and drugging of young East African athletes.
Doubtful. Probably fresh out of college posters still suckling from the ideological teet.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
not quite is it wrote:
Thank you, but now you are adding 2021, and your link does not say that those 10 are the "most common busts". Obviously there were more a lot more than 20 cases in 2021 and 2022 combined. So you appear to be the "confused" one, or the one engaging in propaganda.
Between cases under appeal, sorting out provisional vs. in-place bans, AIU vs. ADAK bans etc. I don't really have the energy to definitively prove my point. Nor do you. But in following, Tri Acetone + Whereabouts + Bizarre substances represent more bans especially on lower-tier athletes than Testosterone (fairly common), Nandrolone (fairly common), EPO (pretty rare), ABP (more high profile, but I think 2 cases total in 2023). You can bring numbers to the table if you disagree.
If you isolate to the biggest names, yes it's more a mix of Whereabouts/ABP/EPO/Testosterone. Reason being, these athletes are probably better-informed and trying to dope more effectively than taking an anti-inflammatory solely banned on raceday. Anyhow, not sure why you think this is propoganda. Ekiru's idiotic/profligate doping seems more an outlier among the top athletes. The biggest bust being ABP violations (Kipruto, Kwemoi), Cherono/Kipserem/Kacheran (PEDs we've heard of).
OK. Sounded a bit like propaganda to me, as if most doping cases were accidental stupidity and not attempts to get faster = earn more money (and fame).
For the records, I agree with your post above for the most part. Haven't seen much whereabouts failures on lower tier, but I don't want to argue about that.
As a side note: the ABP cases are the most interesting ones, especially when the details are being published (Rutto, A. Kiptum etc.). Not only do we see how they doped depending on the season, but also whether it was EPO (as in most cases, yet they didn't test positive for EPO because of the short glowing time) or transfusions or both, depending on the season.
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The USA is now a craphole because of the people it lets in. It is time the borders are closed to everyone.
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