How come marathoners are such wimps compared to triathletes and ultra-runners that run marathon or longer distances all the time midday?
I think part of the idea here is to have faster times. It's looking like we'll have 3 runners in, but let's give it an even better chance and let's have our fastest go.
My take: 6 am is a non-starter. No need to have it that early.
Personally I think they could keep it at noon and then if it is above a certain temp, move it to 8 am a few days before. Usually Orlando in February isn't that much different than Paris in the summer.
But my favorite option is to run it at night. What am I missing with that option?
Is there someplace that we could flood USATF with emails that will break their inbox?
All runners have to let them know that we need them to work for the good of the sport.
A decent portion of marathons do start at 6:30 or 7:00 am. A noon start could potentially mean, if the heat is around 75-77 degrees, which is possible in February in Orlando, that one or two of the top finishers could miss the A standard if they don't have it already. Noon is a ridiculous marathon time.
Most marathons start early on Sunday morning because the road closures cause less disruption at this time and the municipalities want traffic back to normal by noon.
I believe the goal is to send competitors that's capable of running in the conditions they're most likely to face at the time. The goal isn't simply to qualify under most ideal conditions then get to the Olympics and have nothing but DNFs due to the heat. Having qualifications is to eliminate people that won't do well at the meet. People that run well under the projected conditions are who you want selected and you need to discover that now. I wouldn't vote for a time change. I wouldn't be satisfied with catering to pro athletes that don't want to run because the weather isn't ideal for them in competition. Adjust or be eliminated.
It's better for TV time for it to stay at noon. People may actually watch. Who is going to watch at 6/7am and 3/4am on the West Coast? They have already said they will move it if it happens to be too hot.
And honestly it's more unpredictable and entertaining if the weather is warm. Not a death march like Doja, but not perfect conditions either. It will be hot and hilly in Paris. Let the tough ones rise to the top.
No, run it at 7am and then have a tape delayed broadcast at noon. Piece of cake.
How come marathoners are such wimps compared to triathletes and ultra-runners that run marathon or longer distances all the time midday?
Marathoning involves actual running. Ultras not so much, and triathlon is where mediocre swim/bike/runners dwell.
Maybe ten years ago. Pro Triathlon men are running low mid 2:30s after competing hard for 4 hours, in sleeved outfits that have to legally be zipped up (hot and comfortable), in extreme heat and humidity and crappy courses. And they are doing it 3-4 times a year with no pacers. I would argue thats far from mediocre. I am not saying they can run 2:08 but I have never heard a pro triathlete complain about heat.
My take: 6 am is a non-starter. No need to have it that early.
Personally I think they could keep it at noon and then if it is above a certain temp, move it to 8 am a few days before. Usually Orlando in February isn't that much different than Paris in the summer.
But my favorite option is to run it at night. What am I missing with that option?
Avg low in Paris on Aug 10 is 58. Avg high in Orlando in Feb is 73. 73>58 so unless Paris organizers are also stupid enough to start the race at noon, Orlando will be much worse. And it's a swamp with crushing humidity which is the worst part. What time is the Paris marathon start?
Who is watching the marathon trials anyway? Would be better to do at whatever time mimics the weather in Paris and then if you want to broadcast do the following:
For the hardcore fan... stream it.
For the casual fan/NBC watcher, show a condensed version of the race over 1 hour later in the day. Say 3:00 or something so the editing team has time to capture all the moves and key storylines.
Made for TV, 1 hour, get all the moves and drama but not over 2+ hours. Can control what time you show it. And your athletes and hard core fans are happy.
Triathletes are competing against one another, not for time, and it is not possible to have the marathon any earlier when they have to start the swim after dawn. By the way, they start around 6 a.m. typically in Florida, as in elsewhere. That is all the marathoners, who have to get a qualifying time, are asking for.
The sun in Orlando is far more direct than in the northern latitudes of Paris, so even if the temperature were the same it would be no fun at noon in Orlando. Virtually no one tries to run after ten a.m. in Florida. In winter, it's possible to finish by 10-10:30 but by no means easy like running in Paris in the early morning in August. I just ran in Paris in the morning in late July after a very hot night and the conditions were great.
Yes let's select a team that will suck in the heat in Paris.
You have to run fast to qualify. Fast runners are fast in any conditions. Mantz and Young finished 1-2 in the hot humid New Haven 20k a month ago, and then went 1-2 for Americans in Chicago.
You don't have many marathon opportunities, and yet the olympic standards is really fast. Why would we run the trials in conditions where it's impossible to run fast? Other countries piggy-back off races in good racing conditions. For example Great Britain has made London marathon their trials race, Japan holds their selection in good conditions. Kenya selects based on who runs fast times throughout the year in good conditions. Why are we dumb enough to make our athletes run a marathon in 75-80 degrees? It will not be that hot in Paris. Average lows will be 60, and average highs 78. The marathons start at 7:30 or 8:00 in the morning, it will be about 65 degrees during the marathon. In Orlando at 12:20pm-2:40pm it will be around 75 degrees.
So the conditions will not be hot in Paris. With such a fast time standard we should have our trials in a time/place that the standard can reasonably be achieved.
The same people complaining about the start time are the same that want more money from their sponsors. This is a made for TV event, why not try to maximize that window for sponsorship money? The audience already wont be huge but why would they want to limit it by starting at 7am and eliminating any casual fan?
All I read on this forum last week after TCM was that elite runners know their body and train all summer in the heat. So why is this any different?
A large reason the runners qualified want it to be in the morning, is because they want to run FAST. Why would you want to run a race in conditions that don't allow you to run as fast? Running a race at 12:20pm when it's hot instead of 7:00am when it's actually pretty nice is such a dumb move, it's so easy to just start the race at a good time. It's not like you are changing the date or the course, it's just the time of day. And the time of day is going to make a massive difference. The average low is 54 degrees in Orlando in February, the high is at 75 degrees. A marathon at 54-60 degrees is going to be way faster than a marathon at 72-75 degrees. We could actually see some amazing performances if the race was in the morning, and all of the hard work from the athletes would show with a fast time, possibly a bunch of personal best times. But if the race is held at 12:20pm, all of the times will be at least a few minutes slower and be less exciting. All of that hard work to go run 2:11 or 2:12 instead of people popping off 2:08 or 2:07. Same for the women, we could have seen a bunch of people pushing 2:20, but now we'll probably see 2:25-2:26 type of times near the front.
It's better for TV time for it to stay at noon. People may actually watch. Who is going to watch at 6/7am and 3/4am on the West Coast? They have already said they will move it if it happens to be too hot.
And honestly it's more unpredictable and entertaining if the weather is warm. Not a death march like Doja, but not perfect conditions either. It will be hot and hilly in Paris. Let the tough ones rise to the top.
Just run the race earlier and put a recording of the race on at the preferred time. Most people watching won't have checked the results.
Maybe 30 yrs ago no one would have checked results, but in 2023? Are you serious? These people are insane and take it as a personal affront when coverage of a race isn't done perfectly. If the race is played on a tape delay, viewership (which is going to be minimal regardless) would be even smaller. The difference in those that will get up early and the number that you might gain having it go at noon is minute. Just run it early and show it live.
Meh. On a Sunday morning in February, I am probably going to watch a Premier League match rather than this marathon. Why? Because the soccer match will have implications. This race will be slow due to the heat and humidity. USATF is likely going to end up selecting a team based on those that have the Oly standard. Some 2:14 runner is going to have their Cinderella moment and a payday before returning to obscurity.
It’s a waste of time to watch two bottom dwelling NBA teams play when neither is going to make the playoffs. Why would I watch the running equivalent of that?