Marathon – Sub 2:20 Club 1. Zach Panning 2:09:28 Chicago, IL 2022 2. Brian Sell 2:10:47 Chicago, IL 2006 3. Bobby Curtis 2:11:20 Chicago, IL 2014 & Frankfurt, Germany 2016 4. Brendan Gregg 2:11:38 Chicago, IL 2019 5. Trent Britney 2:12:24 US Trials AL 2004 6. Shadrack Biwott 2:12:52 New York, NY 2018 7. Jake Riley 2:13:16 Chicago, IL 2014 8. JP Flavin 2:13:27 Boston, MA 2023 9. Wilkerson Given 2:13:42 Chicago, IL 2022 10. Nick Arciniaga 2:13:46 New York, NY 2009 11. Clint Verran 2:14:12 Boston, MA 2006 12. Mike Morgan 2:14:22 US Trials Houston 2012 13. Luke Humphrey 2:14:37 San Diego, CA 2011 14. Drew Polley 2:14:58 US Trials Houston 2012 15. Chad Johnson 2:15:03 Chicago, IL 2006 16. Kyle O’Brien 2:15:13 Chicago, IL 2006 17. Ben Kendell 2:15:47 Sacramento, CA 2022 18. Pat Rizzo 2:15:48 Chicago, IL 2009 19. Dathan Ritzenhein 2:16:19 Boston, MA 2019 20. Mike Reneau 2:16:20 Chicago, IL 2008 21. Jeff Campbell 2:16:25 Birmingham, AL 2003 22. Paul Heffernon 2:16:46 US Trials Houston 2012 23. Sage Canada 2:16:52 San Diego, CA 2011 24. Zach Hine 2:16:54 Boston, MA 2011 25. Marty Rosendahl 2:17:05 Chicago, IL 2006 26. Nick Cordes 2:17:16 Sacramento, CA 2004 27. Ethan Shaw 2:17:26 Twin Cities, MN 2013 28. Jack Mastandrea 2:17:27 Ottawa, CAN 2022 29. Chris Wehrman 2:17:49 Detroit, MI 2001 30. Robert Scribner 2:18:18 US Trials Houston 2012 31. Brendan Martin 2:18:28 Fukuoka, Japan 2013 32. Patrick Moulton 2:18:35 US Trials NY 2007 33. Mo Hrezi 2:18:40 Ottawa, CAN 2016 34. Trent Lusignan 2:18:47 Sacramento, CA 2018 35. Ben Rosario 2:18:53 Sacramento, CA 2004 36. Dave Ernsberger 2:18:56 Chicago, IL 2006 37. Tim Young 2:19:01 Chicago, IL 2010 38. Josh Eberly 2:19:28 Chicago, IL 2005 39. Alec Sandusky 2:19:46 Chicago, IL 2023 40. Todd Snyder 2:19:55 Boston, MA 2009 41. Carl Rundell 2:19:58 Birmingham, AL 2003
Every Japanese University. BYU alum. Random Kenyan villagers. Why do you think sub 2:20 for the mens marathon in 2023 is a relevant metric? 2:20 can’t even get you to the US olympic trials
Save for only a small handful on this list....the vast majority of these times were run "pre-super shoe era".....So Brian Sell Running 2:10 probably could've been 2:08 and most every one could be 2-3min faster nowadays. With that in mind, I'd say it's worth the "comparison."
That makes a 2:19:xx guy back then a 2:17:xx guy and an easy OTQ in current times. I will give the Hansons credit for also coaching me to a 1:04:32 half marathon PR....which I am very proud of.
Honestly my first year in the program was a total disaster though. I ran up to 140mpw and didn't get injured (but was massively overtrained and tired). I went from running 2:21 in college on a hot day to running 2:24 at Boston on a perfect weather day for my first marathon under Hansons! Then I also had a few half marathon meltdowns (1:07 etc). It wasn't until after 1.5 years in the program things started to "click" and I got 17th at Chicago on a hot day (2:19:18) and then by 2011 I was on fire with my 2nd OTQ performances (1:04 half/2:16 full). By the time the trials rolled around in 2012 (Houston) half of the guys were basically injured and I was overtrained. We spent Christmas and New Years in a small condo in Florida outside of Orlando "heat training" just for that one...in hindsight it was totally not worth it for people like me. Here's a video of "The Simulator" workout from that year:
A video by www.Vo2maxProductions.com . Desiree Davila and her Hansons-Brooks Distance Project teammates run the fabled marathon Simulator workout of 26.2km (...
Some old footage of a 2 by 4 mile workout we did right after placing 2nd as a team at club cross country nationals in 2010. Man, I don't miss these things on...
The progress "blue collar" runners experience at Hansons isn't from the great coaching of Keith and Kevin...it was from having your teammates drag you out of bed every morning 7 days a week
I don’t understand, what’s “blue collar” about running at 7am?
Every Japanese University. BYU alum. Random Kenyan villagers. Why do you think sub 2:20 for the mens marathon in 2023 is a relevant metric? 2:20 can’t even get you to the US olympic trials
Save for only a small handful on this list....the vast majority of these times were run "pre-super shoe era".....So Brian Sell Running 2:10 probably could've been 2:08 and most every one could be 2-3min faster nowadays. With that in mind, I'd say it's worth the "comparison."
That makes a 2:19:xx guy back then a 2:17:xx guy and an easy OTQ in current times. I will give the Hansons credit for also coaching me to a 1:04:32 half marathon PR....which I am very proud of.
Honestly my first year in the program was a total disaster though. I ran up to 140mpw and didn't get injured (but was massively overtrained and tired). I went from running 2:21 in college on a hot day to running 2:24 at Boston on a perfect weather day for my first marathon under Hansons! Then I also had a few half marathon meltdowns (1:07 etc).
Ahh so it’s “blue collar” to overtrain, I see. Blue collar people love things like natty light and frozen pizza, and you can get away with consuming those things if you run too much
Marathon – Sub 2:20 Club 1. Zach Panning 2:09:28 Chicago, IL 2022 2. Brian Sell 2:10:47 Chicago, IL 2006 3. Bobby Curtis 2:11:20 Chicago, IL 2014 & Frankfurt, Germany 2016 4. Brendan Gregg 2:11:38 Chicago, IL 2019 5. Trent Britney 2:12:24 US Trials AL 2004 6. Shadrack Biwott 2:12:52 New York, NY 2018
Only six guys sub 2:13 in over 20 years of existence, with the budget and amount of athletes that Hansons have??? And only 4 in the past 15 years. That's not great.
Roots has done better than that while not paying their runners a dime with having 4 or 5 guys in the 2:09-2:12 range, Team USA Minnesota/now Minnesota Distance Elite has had 4-5 2:10-2:12 guys since 2012 with a tiny budget, multiple other groups have had 2-3 sub 2:13's with zero budget.
The progress "blue collar" runners experience at Hansons isn't from the great coaching of Keith and Kevin...it was from having your teammates drag you out of bed every morning 7 days a week
I don’t understand, what’s “blue collar” about running at 7am?
what if someone with a white collar job wakes up at 5am to run before they go to work. Is that blue collar? But it couldn't be because they have a white collar job. I'm confused
Marathon – Sub 2:20 Club 1. Zach Panning 2:09:28 Chicago, IL 2022 2. Brian Sell 2:10:47 Chicago, IL 2006 3. Bobby Curtis 2:11:20 Chicago, IL 2014 & Frankfurt, Germany 2016 4. Brendan Gregg 2:11:38 Chicago, IL 2019 5. Trent Britney 2:12:24 US Trials AL 2004 6. Shadrack Biwott 2:12:52 New York, NY 2018
Only six guys sub 2:13 in over 20 years of existence, with the budget and amount of athletes that Hansons have??? And only 4 in the past 15 years. That's not great.
Roots has done better than that while not paying their runners a dime with having 4 or 5 guys in the 2:09-2:12 range, Team USA Minnesota/now Minnesota Distance Elite has had 4-5 2:10-2:12 guys since 2012 with a tiny budget, multiple other groups have had 2-3 sub 2:13's with zero budget.
yeah but Roots doesn't run in "real real cold" Michigan so they're not "real good blue collar" like Hansons, so they're not as "real good" as Hansons even if they're faster
The progress "blue collar" runners experience at Hansons isn't from the great coaching of Keith and Kevin...it was from having your teammates drag you out of bed every morning 7 days a week before 7am (think Michigan in the winter when it's single digits out and it snowed 10" overnight) to bust out 120-150 miles a week. Teammates and "rolling with the pack" at Hansons was everything. We helped each other out a lot!
Building a team that work well together isn't great coaching?
I don't think anybody is suggesting the Hansons are Arthur Lydiard, but they had a vision, and backed it up with action.
I reckon you should show more gratitude, you certainly got a lot of benefit.
So maybe running 120 miles a week at 6 minute pace isn’t the answer to good training. Who would’ve thought. People fetishize their “real good blue collar” training too much, just bc Brian Sell led the Marathon Trials for a hot second like 20 years ago
Save for only a small handful on this list....the vast majority of these times were run "pre-super shoe era".....So Brian Sell Running 2:10 probably could've been 2:08 and most every one could be 2-3min faster nowadays. With that in mind, I'd say it's worth the "comparison."
That makes a 2:19:xx guy back then a 2:17:xx guy and an easy OTQ in current times. I will give the Hansons credit for also coaching me to a 1:04:32 half marathon PR....which I am very proud of.
Honestly my first year in the program was a total disaster though. I ran up to 140mpw and didn't get injured (but was massively overtrained and tired). I went from running 2:21 in college on a hot day to running 2:24 at Boston on a perfect weather day for my first marathon under Hansons! Then I also had a few half marathon meltdowns (1:07 etc).
Ahh so it’s “blue collar” to overtrain, I see. Blue collar people love things like natty light and frozen pizza, and you can get away with consuming those things if you run too much
Every Japanese University. BYU alum. Random Kenyan villagers. Why do you think sub 2:20 for the mens marathon in 2023 is a relevant metric? 2:20 can’t even get you to the US olympic trials
Save for only a small handful on this list....the vast majority of these times were run "pre-super shoe era".....So Brian Sell Running 2:10 probably could've been 2:08 and most every one could be 2-3min faster nowadays. With that in mind, I'd say it's worth the "comparison."
That makes a 2:19:xx guy back then a 2:17:xx guy and an easy OTQ in current times. I will give the Hansons credit for also coaching me to a 1:04:32 half marathon PR....which I am very proud of.
Honestly my first year in the program was a total disaster though. I ran up to 140mpw and didn't get injured (but was massively overtrained and tired). I went from running 2:21 in college on a hot day to running 2:24 at Boston on a perfect weather day for my first marathon under Hansons! Then I also had a few half marathon meltdowns (1:07 etc). It wasn't until after 1.5 years in the program things started to "click" and I got 17th at Chicago on a hot day (2:19:18) and then by 2011 I was on fire with my 2nd OTQ performances (1:04 half/2:16 full). By the time the trials rolled around in 2012 (Houston) half of the guys were basically injured and I was overtrained. We spent Christmas and New Years in a small condo in Florida outside of Orlando "heat training" just for that one...in hindsight it was totally not worth it for people like me. Here's a video of "The Simulator" workout from that year:
Of course Des made the Olympic Team team that year (she had also been 2nd at Boston already too!)
The shoes do not make you 2+ minutes faster, no matter how fast you want to believe you could run today with new shoes. Times have steadily been getting faster over time, and we have not seen a 2 minute jump in the top times in the world, we haven't even seen an American record on the men's side and we have a two-time olympic medalist in Rupp wearing the new shoes, and he only put up a low 2:06. Fat chance he'd be a 2:08 guy in old shoes, he's better than every single runner who ran 2:06/2:07 before him.
Ahh so it’s “blue collar” to overtrain, I see. Blue collar people love things like natty light and frozen pizza, and you can get away with consuming those things if you run too much
You seem obsessed with the Hansons.
Sorry you couldn't hack it.
I spent almost 3 years of my life there. The team would run 7 days a week....sometimes twice a day. It consumed you. Not just the running.... but also working in the shoe stores and living in the houses owned by the Hansons. It was a 24/7 kind of gig.
It was a great opportunity for me coming out of college and my dream (I was too slow to get sponsored anywhere else anyway!).
As far as "blue collar" goes: Notice I put that term in quotes. We had 3 guys with Ivy League degrees (some Masters degrees) working in a shoe store for $10/hour. How many minimum wage jobs have you worked to make ends meet? I've worked several (and I'm not counting the shoe stores as that was over minimum wage). A lot of the guys on the team did like Natty light (and Mickey’s for that matter)...and yes, many a frozen pizza and McDonalds were consumed. Brian Sell loved to swing by McDonalds on the way to work.
But I reference the phrase more around the actual work ethic of high mileage training (quite high!) and the idea that we werent' top level recruits out of college with 27-min 10km PRs. It was frowned upon to run on a treadmill (or use "altitude training")...hence we were out in the ice/snow busting low 5-min and sub 5-min miles in long workouts.
And to the poser that don't think newer super shoes "make a difference" now?! Well the science disagrees with you! Sure, people respond differently to supershoes....but on average I don't think a 2-min improvement in a marathon (even at the 2:15 time range level) is an inaccurate ball park average.
I got exactly what I wanted out of the program....and left when I was ready....on my own terms (I can't say that was always the case for some of my teammates). I knew I was never going to come close to making the Olympics....just being at the Trials again was a big dream for me...So it wasn't about "hacking it" or not (whatever that is supposed to mean?). It set me up really well for a career in ultrarunning and social media.
I spent almost 3 years of my life there. The team would run 7 days a week....sometimes twice a day. It consumed you. Not just the running.... but also working in the shoe stores and living in the houses owned by the Hansons. It was a 24/7 kind of gig.
It was a great opportunity for me coming out of college and my dream (I was too slow to get sponsored anywhere else anyway!).
As far as "blue collar" goes: Notice I put that term in quotes. We had 3 guys with Ivy League degrees (some Masters degrees) working in a shoe store for $10/hour. How many minimum wage jobs have you worked to make ends meet? I've worked several (and I'm not counting the shoe stores as that was over minimum wage). A lot of the guys on the team did like Natty light (and Mickey’s for that matter)...and yes, many a frozen pizza and McDonalds were consumed. Brian Sell loved to swing by McDonalds on the way to work.
But I reference the phrase more around the actual work ethic of high mileage training (quite high!) and the idea that we werent' top level recruits out of college with 27-min 10km PRs. It was frowned upon to run on a treadmill (or use "altitude training")...hence we were out in the ice/snow busting low 5-min and sub 5-min miles in long workouts.
And to the poser that don't think newer super shoes "make a difference" now?! Well the science disagrees with you! Sure, people respond differently to supershoes....but on average I don't think a 2-min improvement in a marathon (even at the 2:15 time range level) is an inaccurate ball park average.
I got exactly what I wanted out of the program....and left when I was ready....on my own terms (I can't say that was always the case for some of my teammates). I knew I was never going to come close to making the Olympics....just being at the Trials again was a big dream for me...So it wasn't about "hacking it" or not (whatever that is supposed to mean?). It set me up really well for a career in ultrarunning and social media.
Lol I wasn't talking to you, but it's telling that you wrote an essay to respond.
Ahh so it’s “blue collar” to overtrain, I see. Blue collar people love things like natty light and frozen pizza, and you can get away with consuming those things if you run too much
You seem obsessed with the Hansons.
Sorry you couldn't hack it.
As he points out just above my post, this guy wasn't mocking you, Sage, but rather the OP. I suspect the 'hack it' poster respects you - as do I.
Why would you expect runners that were nothing special in college to suddenly become world beaters after college?
Hansons is a great training philosophy. Their athletes have done really well with their level of talent.
Agree. They get b level talent and make the most out of them. Similar to Hoka Naz elite team.
This concept is lost on a lot of folks. There are runners among us who, in the minds of fans, are 'supposed to' run 2:03 or 2:04, judging by their youthful exploits. Some of you would put Grant Fisher in that category. Many thought of Rupp that way, whether he was just getting out of high school or about to wrap up his UO career. Now, Rupp panned out pretty well, but still not AR level. So depending on where the expectations were or whom you're talking to, he either was exactly as advertised or a little short.
But not all young stars achieve success similar to Rupp, Shorter, Flanagan, or whoever you think of as the American A-list. You can throw out half a dozen more names that everyone thought would be great and were. But it's a lot easier to list this category: those who seemed destined for marathon greatness and didn't end up there. Groups exist which consistently get the A-list recruits but usually don't get them to being internationally competitive in the marathon. Look at BTC. There are more Derricks than Shorters 5 years after coming out of the NCAA.
Keep in mind those such as Rupp and Flanagan - the absolute cream of the NCAA crop in their eras - were expected by all observers to be really good. Getting them into a lead pack didn't take any Harry Potter magic. So now let's look at lower tiers of runners. They're not 'supposed to' break ARs no matter whom you ask. Which is more impressive: getting someone who was never a star at any level to 2:11 or 2:12; or, taking someone who seems destined for 2:05 to a 2:13.