If male 14:00/29:00 type runners can run 2:08:00-2:10:00, and multitudes have done so, it is perfectly logical for a woman to run 2:11:53, with the same under distance credentials.
She is a 1:59 runner over the 800.
Watch out! Next thing you know Nia Akins will run a marathon in 2:10. Then she'll write a song about it and release a single called "And you thought 800 runners couldn't run a fast marathon."
If male 14:00/29:00 type runners can run 2:08:00-2:10:00, and multitudes have done so, it is perfectly logical for a woman to run 2:11:53, with the same under distance credentials.
Um........no.14.00 and 29.00 are not women's times.Theyre junior men's times.No clean woman could ever approach them.
If male 14:00/29:00 type runners can run 2:08:00-2:10:00, and multitudes have done so, it is perfectly logical for a woman to run 2:11:53, with the same under distance credentials.
Um........no.14.00 and 29.00 are not women's times.Theyre junior men's times.No clean woman could ever approach them.
No evidence that Hassan, Gidey, et al are not clean.
Yes, Assefa is new to marathon, but Ethiopian coaches have a way of producing these monsters, clean. Their training system, incorporating lots of calisthenics and gym work, goes much further than just simple running. Pound for pound these Ethiopian women are super strong athletes. Compare Ethiopian and Kenya elite women. The Ethiopian women are much more athletic with better form and strength.
I have not ever heard of any Ethiopian elites ever being busted.
All evidence points to a clean system in Ethiopia. Too much to lose by doping. National pride.
Kenya has cracked down on drug testing in the past 5-10 years and has created better facilities for it, which is likely why we have seen so many high profile busts the past few years. Im not sure Ethiopia has done the same.
If male 14:00/29:00 type runners can run 2:08:00-2:10:00, and multitudes have done so, it is perfectly logical for a woman to run 2:11:53, with the same under distance credentials.
Who are the 14/29 runners that are running 2:08 to 2:10. List them along with their 5km and 10km PB's
Also, as I stated in another thread I can't find now. If your best 800 is 1:59, how do you reel off 3:05's comfortably after 30km with a 3 flat last 1km?
Except Marathon is an event that takes years of speed and endurance to master. It is not feasible that Athing Mu for example is going to jump into Marathon training and pop even a sub 3hr easily.
I don't think this is true at all anymore. Sifan Hassan won her first one and she was training during Ramadan. Molly Seidel won Olympic bronze in her 2nd. Tons of East African women running sub 2:20 upon debut.
Not really an accurate comparison. There have been about 7 or 8 women who have run the 5k between 14:00 to 14:15.
There has only been one woman who has run the marathon between 2:11 to 2:13.
If your theory was correct, then there should have been a lot more women running in the 2:11 to 2:13 range by now.
No, because those women in the 14:00-14:15 range haven't been focusing on the marathon. If people like Hassan, Gidey, Taye, etc were to really focus on the marathon, we would see times in the 2:09:30-2:11:00 range for women. Remember that a woman is also different to a male, thanks to better fat burning capacity. In the past when we saw Joan Benoît (15:30/32:00) run 2:21:50, we knew that she was running with men in the 14:30-14:45/29:50-30:20 range.
In a few years when an Ethiopian woman runs 2:09:30, almost as fast as Bill Rodgers, people will continue the doping rumors, with zero substance.
I think this is right. Going up in distance the women almost always run faster relatively to their lower distance times. I think it is because they generally have less power, and are achieving the time more from aerobic capacity, and an ability to sustain a high percentage of that.
My experience (as a male) is that I would have been around a Sara Hall type at 5/10k but the better part of 20 minutes slower at a marathon. I'll take that I started to tale off fast past 10k, but I can't imagine any scenario where I could have run with 10 minutes of her time.
Generally speaking, I'd expect a 15:00 min 5k woman to be a lot faster in a marathon than a 15:00 5k man (other than some real slow twitch aerobic monster).
If male 14:00/29:00 type runners can run 2:08:00-2:10:00, and multitudes have done so, it is perfectly logical for a woman to run 2:11:53, with the same under distance credentials.
Who are the 14/29 runners that are running 2:08 to 2:10. List them along with their 5km and 10km PB's
Also, as I stated in another thread I can't find now. If your best 800 is 1:59, how do you reel off 3:05's comfortably after 30km with a 3 flat last 1km?
'She' isnot a 14/29 runner
Brendan Martin is about a 14:30 5K and he finished 2:17:20.
My experience (as a male) is that I would have been around a Sara Hall type at 5/10k but the better part of 20 minutes slower at a marathon. I'll take that I started to tale off fast past 10k, but I can't imagine any scenario where I could have run with 10 minutes of her time.
Anecdote of one. That is probably to do with your own physiology, mind and style. There is no way an equal woman at 5km outruns a male
Looking at her numbers, she was a 2:00 min 800 runner which translates to a ~4:20 miler.
She ran this race at 5:02 pace, a bit more than 40 secs slower than her mile pace.
Kipchoge was a 3:50 miler and raced a best 4: 36 pace marathon.
So, she compressed the difference between her mile and marathon pace more than Kilchkge.🤔
Good numbers. Assefa has 54 seconds 400 and 1:59/800 speed, way faster than most marathon women, and even some men (Kawauchi would have never sniffed 54 seconds, probably, 55-57 at best).
Assefa, has 3:52-3:55/1500 potential, if trained for that event. That's 4:10-4:13 mile speed. Running 5 minutes miles, for 2:11:00 is physiologically in line with her present capacities.
Not really an accurate comparison. There have been about 7 or 8 women who have run the 5k between 14:00 to 14:15.
There has only been one woman who has run the marathon between 2:11 to 2:13.
If your theory was correct, then there should have been a lot more women running in the 2:11 to 2:13 range by now.
No, because those women in the 14:00-14:15 range haven't been focusing on the marathon. If people like Hassan, Gidey, Taye, etc were to really focus on the marathon, we would see times in the 2:09:30-2:11:00 range for women. Remember that a woman is also different to a male, thanks to better fat burning capacity. In the past when we saw Joan Benoît (15:30/32:00) run 2:21:50, we knew that she was running with men in the 14:30-14:45/29:50-30:20 range.
In a few years when an Ethiopian woman runs 2:09:30, almost as fast as Bill Rodgers, people will continue the doping rumors, with zero substance.
I agree with the other poster that your equivalency is too optimistic. VDOT says a 12:37 5K coverts to a 2:01:10 marathon, but it’s unreasonable to expect the same person to be able to do both near WR times. What you are saying when applied to men is like saying that if the sub-12:40 men really focused on the marathon, we’d see several 2:01 times, but only two men have ever run sub-12:40 and three sub-2:02, and there is no overlap. The sample size of data on which the conversion is based is too small and unreliable in those regimes.
Ummm no. Almost all of Kenya’s big doping busts have come from their athletes being tested in European competitions. Certainly not because Kenya has a better in-country testing like you suggested. When was the last time you hear of a top Ethiopian being busted? All of the elites in Ethiopia are based in Addis and they are statistically the most tested athletes in the world. Not only that, their top athletes are racing all throughout the year in every type of competition imaginable (indoor, continental tour, diamond leagues, cross country, road racing) while the top Kenyans disappear for 9 months out of the year and then come out of nowhere and win medals at worlds and Olympics. I’m not saying that it’s impossible but all things are indicating that these people are clean, certainly a lot cleaner than the Kenyans that you people are worshiping