A thing MU would have won with a Wottle... run dead last and perfectly timed her kick in the last lap!

How is it dangerous from stride length if u r last?

Ummm she front ran her way to Olympic and WC gold...she obviously doesn't need to change tactics, simply get back to the level of fitness she was previously at. She had a down year and still won bronze ...

You didn't watch Budapest then? She came third.

Not sure what this kick is that you refer to. 'Kick' is like what Steve Ovett used to do off the final bend. I have NEVER seen Athing Mu do anything like that.

She wasn’t class of the field last Sunday, that’s true. But her lifetime best in the 800 is the fastest, and she also has the fastest 400 and 1500.

It’s easy to make judgements after an event.

That race strategy is a great strategy to finish (4th through 7th). Usually 800m runners are not going to win if they are in last place to 500m mark.

Let's review:

* James Robinson often came up a little short racing like that, either not advancing to the next round or not making Olympic team.

* That strategy worked for S Coe the first couple of rounds, 1980 Olympic, 800m. S Coe came up short in the final, 1980 800m racing in that manner.

* Clayton Murphy received bronze racing like that, 2016 Olympic. Athing Mu has a bronze. Why would she want to use a strategy that usually doesn't work?

Expected anyone (regardless of how talented) to win a WC or Olympic 800 when they haven’t raced one all season is ludicrous. If Mu had run 2-3 competitive 800’s prior to Budapest (to gain race fitness) - should would have won the gold🏅

Then you brought up the wrong guy. DW proves my point.

Maybe not last so much, but still need to make your way through the pack, quite expeditiously in an 800. Still makes zero sense.

She couldn't finish like Wottle. Unlike her, he was also an endurance athlete and a top miler in his era.

In the women's 8, they often go out in 26-27 before running 30s and 31s the rest of the way. That makes no sense. Even a 28 opening gives you an even paced 56, which is itself well ahead of pace for a world record, which none of these runners this year could run within two seconds of, and Mu previously ran about 1.75s off the record in her fastest race. Why not run 28.5-29s? You save plenty of energy through 600m and could easily outkick the others at the end after drafting most of the way, and you are still setting yourself up for an outstanding time. Going out in 26.5 (1:46 pace!!) just gets you plenty of lactic right off the bat.

I'm just saying, taking the lead and pushing the pace was a dumb strategy. She had no chance to win that way.

Yes she won in previous years when she was way better than everyone else, now she's not. If she had actually ran a good strategy she probably would have been contending for gold.

American posters somehow are mesmerized by late rallies. Hence all the Hocker threads, etc.

Dave Wottle ruined American middle distance running for 50+ years based on others trying to copy his style and coaches pushing the same thing.

Outliers are never defined properly nor rejected sufficiently.

We finally get an elite frontrunner and geniuses want her to switch it up. Those long legs in the semifinal already evidenced the predicament she would face. Mu trying to loop in lane 3 while somebody oblivious to her presence moves out. That's game over at highest level.

She has far more margin for error as frontrunner. That pace was nothing that a motivated and conditioned Mu couldn't handle. When Kersee made those vacation comments a month before Budapest I posted that Mu's dilemma probably was that she was in 1:56 or 1:57 shape and didn't know if it would be enough.

She ran 1:56 mid. It wasn't enough

BTW, I'm not sure if it was mentioned but Moraa knows she needs to be faster next year in Paris. At the end of that Kenyan article on Kipyegon tripling there were a couple of paragraphs about Moraa. She said she intents to get into world record shape.

I dismiss that possibility but it means she likely will be better next year. That sustained speed is rare. I knew she was a problem when she outfinished Kipyegon in Kenyan championships 800 last year. Nobody does that to Kipyegon. I've only seen in from Moraa and Niyonsaba (at 3000).

Dude you're missing the obvious point the frontrunner is almost always lose in 800s...

I mean anyone want to run through some video and calculate the odds that you win a championship 800 leading gun to tape...

I'd say it happens in less than 10% of high level 800 m... That is championship races not time trials where someone is clearly better and there's a pacer

I mean it's just a dumb strategy to go out faster than you can handle and to run your fastest split the first 200 m. It's just a dumb strategy...

Did I mention it's a dumb strategy...

It's weird that people would argue this point. Obviously if she would have ran a smart tactical race, she would have had a good chance to win.... Basically everyone behind her used some drafting and finished stronger than her.

I'm just saying the writing was on the wall. She wasn't going to be able to lead gun to tape. It was obvious that her margin of victory was getting smaller and smaller and the others were getting better

So instead of learn from that and actually try to run a smart tactical race and give yourself a chance to win she just basically said f it... I'm just going to accept losing and show no strategy or tactical race ability.

Anyway she better figure something out cuz you can't be afraid to run in the pack and you can't be afraid to run tactically

She has zero chance of winning any major championship running in the front wire wire. It's not going to happen. I just mentioned the wottle thing as a joke but if she had that sort of strategy about timing or kick right and using some drafting she would have at least got silver

You don't need a coach to run like Dave Wottle. In theory, it's not too difficult to understand how to run from the back in the first lap and slowly wind up your kick in the next 300 metres before letting it all loose on the home stretch.

*You don't need Dave Wottle as your coach to run like Dave Wottle.

To be fair, it's not 100% sure that Mu had the best kick in the field. Moraa has shown the ability to produce devastating kicks in her races this year and even in 2022. She has 50.38 400m speed from this year which I'm not sure a current Athing Mu could replicate given she ran a 4:03 1500 at USAs.