The pace where you START to get aerobic benefits from running/jogging seems to be about twice as fast as walking pace. For most that’s in the 10-12 min range. If you want to maximize your aerobic capacity, the sweet spot is about mile + 3 min. Your median 4 min miler type does his easy runs in the 7 min range +/- 30 ~30 secs depending on conditions and how he feels. Obviously the day after a speed workout is gonna be slower.
The dopes who say you can’t run too slow don’t understand muscle physiology and that at very slow jogging paces you’re not recruiting fibers which have a large capacity for aerobic development.
The too fast problem results from recruiting fibers that don’t have a lot of aerobic capacity and take longer to recover and as a result volume is compromised and injury risk rises.
I've been grappling with this question this summer. My HS aged son who's fairly new to running (a 5:10 miler), and never ran before in the summer, has been running 5 to 6 days a week. He runs in the evening by himself after working all day and I want him to keep his heart rate in the 150s or lower on most runs. In order for him to do this he needs to run about 9:10 per mile or slower.
His teammates, with similar times, run some mornings together at a much faster pace. I have to remind my son not to worry about pace and to just put in the work. I remind him and myself that the fastest Fall 10 miler I ever did (not that it was good) was after a summer of very easy consistent mileage with people much slower than me.
Just use the talk test. If you can string together multiple sentences together while running then you are at the correct easy pace. People obsess over pace too much. At the end of the day running is running, and obsessing over tiny details like easy day pace just zaps the fun out of the sport. It’s summer, just go by effort, run with your friends, and have fun.
Can people please stop recommending any actual heart rate value for a person they don't know?
150 bpm might be an easy jog for Runner A and a threshold for Runner B, even if A and B run the same 5k time.
My girlfriend's easy runs are at about 155 bpm which is just easy aerobic jogging. My easy runs are at 120-125 bpm for aerobic jogging, which to me feels exactly the same as her hitting 155.
If you know somebody's resting and max heart rate you can assign a percentage, but using 220 minus age is worthless for an individual. Might work on average but who cares
I've been grappling with this question this summer. My HS aged son who's fairly new to running (a 5:10 miler), and never ran before in the summer, has been running 5 to 6 days a week. He runs in the evening by himself after working all day and I want him to keep his heart rate in the 150s or lower on most runs. In order for him to do this he needs to run about 9:10 per mile or slower.
His teammates, with similar times, run some mornings together at a much faster pace. I have to remind my son not to worry about pace and to just put in the work. I remind him and myself that the fastest Fall 10 miler I ever did (not that it was good) was after a summer of very easy consistent mileage with people much slower than me.
maybe don't make all of his easy runs by HR. Some you can make 7:00-8:00. A person I coach who is a college girl, I have 1-2 days a week by HR and make sure they are recovery days. The other "easy" days and sometimes the long run I just give her a pace that is easy/moderate. Something like mile pace+2:00-3:00 depending on how she feels that day.
I don’t know if it’s the same person posting under different handles, but lately there have been a lot of posts about going too slow on runs. Threshold runs. Easy Runs. Etc.
The general advice has been don’t worry about pace, it’s summer. But is that really true. I mean, there is such a thing as junk miles, no? Should a 4:30 hs miler really be running 8:30, 9 or 10min pace? It seems that is “running” versus training.
I recognize it’s been a hot summer… but seems to me that folks are being way too lax about pace on runs. I want my runners running comfortably hard most days. Otherwise they’re jogging. My teams have won may state championships and the have had great post collegiate success.
No way should any sub 5 hs miler training to be decent for cross country be running 9 or 10min pace. Am I the only one who feels this way?
my best advice is to never tell your kids they are running "easy days." Use the word training run instead so they don't get the wrong idea and go too slow.
Can people please stop recommending any actual heart rate value for a person they don't know?
150 bpm might be an easy jog for Runner A and a threshold for Runner B, even if A and B run the same 5k time.
My girlfriend's easy runs are at about 155 bpm which is just easy aerobic jogging. My easy runs are at 120-125 bpm for aerobic jogging, which to me feels exactly the same as her hitting 155.
If you know somebody's resting and max heart rate you can assign a percentage, but using 220 minus age is worthless for an individual. Might work on average but who cares
I'll respond because I mentioned heart rate. I also know my son well enough to consider it for him with the understanding that utilizing it is a work in progress. I never assigned heart rate values for high school runners I coached for the reasons you mentioned. What I also know is that I want most of his summer runs to be very easy and I'd rather him go too slow than too fast. Ego often gets in the way of proper training.
As someone also pointed out the talk test is a better indicator of effort but it's not always easy to have a conversation when you're running by yourself.
I've been grappling with this question this summer. My HS aged son who's fairly new to running (a 5:10 miler), and never ran before in the summer, has been running 5 to 6 days a week. He runs in the evening by himself after working all day and I want him to keep his heart rate in the 150s or lower on most runs. In order for him to do this he needs to run about 9:10 per mile or slower.
His teammates, with similar times, run some mornings together at a much faster pace. I have to remind my son not to worry about pace and to just put in the work. I remind him and myself that the fastest Fall 10 miler I ever did (not that it was good) was after a summer of very easy consistent mileage with people much slower than me.
maybe don't make all of his easy runs by HR. Some you can make 7:00-8:00. A person I coach who is a college girl, I have 1-2 days a week by HR and make sure they are recovery days. The other "easy" days and sometimes the long run I just give her a pace that is easy/moderate. Something like mile pace+2:00-3:00 depending on how she feels that day.
They're not all easy, 3 of them are recovery days that I want in the 150s or lower. My son's other runs end up as you suggested, usually one long hilly run and one uptempo progression run, I dont even give him a pace. His 6th run of the week, on the weeks he runs 6 times, is easy.
I am curious to learn what his heart rate will be when the temperature cools off a bit and on days he's not working.
That being said, of course easy pace matters. It can be too slow for optimal adaption or too hard, so you're stressing the body too much on a daily basis.
What often is overlooked: Daily pace varies, depending on how you train.
E.g.: When you have a 2:20 marathoner who does easier workouts (for example 2 x 3 miles at 5:20ish), he will feel very good at 6flat pace. When he does 2 very hard workouts per week and a hard long run, this may drop. When he does 80 miles it is a different situation vs when the same runner does 150 miles.
Training has always to be seen as a whole picture. But slogging around at 10 minute pace for sure is not optimal for a good runner as a daily pace.
3 of them are recovery days that I want in the 150s or lower.
Ummmmm...
HR in the 150s is not easy/recovery running.
Easy HR is in the 130s, 140s at highest.
True, below 150 but it's been very hard to get him in the 140s and 130s will be slower than a 10:30 pace. Last night he did 5 with heart rate fluctuating between high 140s and mid 150s this was about 9:20 pace. As someone else posted unless you truly know one's max and resting heart rates using heart rate training might not be effective.
I'm learning this as the summer progresses and in my first post stated that I'm grappling with all this (heart rate training, recovery pace...etc.) asking a youngster "how do you feel" doesn't necessarily help as they always feel great.
It was so much simpler when I was young running without Garmin and Strava and all these other things.
I don’t know if it’s the same person posting under different handles, but lately there have been a lot of posts about going too slow on runs. Threshold runs. Easy Runs. Etc.
The general advice has been don’t worry about pace, it’s summer. But is that really true. I mean, there is such a thing as junk miles, no? Should a 4:30 hs miler really be running 8:30, 9 or 10min pace? It seems that is “running” versus training.
I recognize it’s been a hot summer… but seems to me that folks are being way too lax about pace on runs. I want my runners running comfortably hard most days. Otherwise they’re jogging. My teams have won may state championships and the have had great post collegiate success.
No way should any sub 5 hs miler training to be decent for cross country be running 9 or 10min pace. Am I the only one who feels this way?
Well, I can by long running and coaching experience during now over 50 years tell you it's not a feeling 'junk mileage' really is a fact, it's an absolute fact! If we analyses the training of low mileage world class top runners over the years of running we find the vast majority of them ran/runs most of their easy runs quite fast and about 70-80 % of max heartrate.This effective way of training seems to be even more effective than the traditional base building with alot of too slow running. - Magic Man J.S - 👋🧙♂️🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🧙♂️
A lot of factors go into HR. A new runner won't be very efficient so their HR will likely be higher at slow paces. As a runner I could hit 190s in my late 40s in workouts. My easy was around 130. I had 25 years of running efficiency so I could cruise with little effort and peg the HR running hard. I switched to cycling and my range initially was more like 140-165. It really was never easy when I was actually pedaling. A few years on the bike and I now have a bigger range because I have become more efficient with the specific muscle usage.
Body size matters. I had a friend who was 5'6", 120lb who ran 160 on his easy days and could hit 220 in workouts. Another friend 6'3", 190lb was like 120/180.
Heat / sun matters. HR will increase by 10bpm just from shade to sun on a warm day.
So it is best to use "Feel" as the guide to "easy". Conversation is the best indicator. If running alone, there should be no "strain" or minimal effort.
The people I know on strava who run 29-35 10k do their regular runs at 7 minute miles. Sometimes they do a workout like 10 miles at 6:00 and call it "high". They do tempo at 5-5:40. Me I do 17 5k and do all my regular runs at 8 minute miles and tempo at 6:20-50.
Have him ditch the watch and run by feel. Someone already said this but don’t have him run a set pace but by perceived effort and think steady rather than easy pace. Strides are great to add to his runs. Our new athletes are focusing on building a base to be ready for workouts once the season starts in August.
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