How old are you? if you’re 40 and can’t break 60 that is different than if you’re 16 and can’t break 60. if you’re older you have a better shot than if you’re in high school.
I'd say you're asking the wrong question... I'd make it "how much faster could I be over a mile if I did the work necessary to get to 56 speed".
It's like a baller asking how many freethrows he'd make with one eye shut... you can do the mental exercise of working it out, but if the priority is actually performing at the sport why not remove that impediment.
I'd say you're asking the wrong question... I'd make it "how much faster could I be over a mile if I did the work necessary to get to 56 speed".
It's like a baller asking how many freethrows he'd make with one eye shut... you can do the mental exercise of working it out, but if the priority is actually performing at the sport why not remove that impediment.
If your “necessary work” can also improve someone from 56 to 52 or 52 to 48, you could turn a lot of high schools into Newbury Park.
I'd say you're asking the wrong question... I'd make it "how much faster could I be over a mile if I did the work necessary to get to 56 speed".
It's like a baller asking how many freethrows he'd make with one eye shut... you can do the mental exercise of working it out, but if the priority is actually performing at the sport why not remove that impediment.
If your “necessary work” can also improve someone from 56 to 52 or 52 to 48, you could turn a lot of high schools into Newbury Park.
60 second pace leaves a lot of low hanging fruit for a healthy adult male, even with modest god-given ability.
Once nearer 52, there are going to be diminishing returns and it may well be that is the most that person is capable of while including the other work necessary to compete at the mile.
I'd say you're asking the wrong question... I'd make it "how much faster could I be over a mile if I did the work necessary to get to 56 speed".
It's like a baller asking how many freethrows he'd make with one eye shut... you can do the mental exercise of working it out, but if the priority is actually performing at the sport why not remove that impediment.
If he goes from 60->56 but 4:35->4:50, has he gotten better? He needs to get faster while training like a miler, not a 400m guy. For most distance guys that is 1/day week we're you do a half dozen 8s hill sprints or 150s..
I'd say you're asking the wrong question... I'd make it "how much faster could I be over a mile if I did the work necessary to get to 56 speed".
It's like a baller asking how many freethrows he'd make with one eye shut... you can do the mental exercise of working it out, but if the priority is actually performing at the sport why not remove that impediment.
If he goes from 60->56 but 4:35->4:50, has he gotten better? He needs to get faster while training like a miler, not a 400m guy. For most distance guys that is 1/day week we're you do a half dozen 8s hill sprints or 150s..
Clearly no, he wouldn't have improved, but I'm not suggesting a full switch to 400m training. To be that slow over 400m while still training you've got to be neglecting speed HARD. 1hr work a week could make a significant difference and leave plenty of time for the other work he's doing.
I tried to find the 40 year old article that mentioned his inability to go below 60 sec because it seems incredible (as my downvotes attest), but no luck. I was hoping someone here might have more detail - thanks!
I ran a solo 400m time trial yesterday and got a 60.9. I think I would have been a tiny bit faster if it were a race that I tapered for, but it wouldn't be by much.
With that said, do I have any hope of running a sub 4:30 1600 next month? My PR is 4:35.
My guess is 4:30 will be difficult, but not impossible, particularly if you are distance-oriented. Way waaaaaay back in the day I would top out at 59-low for the old 440, but was able to go 4:26 for the mile. I've now been a coach for 30 years and I can call to mind maybe two or three guys who had similar sets of marks, who couldn't break 59 but could break 4:30. Already, 60.9 and 4:35 suggests that yo uare indeed distance-oriented and that you can probably go faster in 400 now if you'd ever do it in racing conditions. So it isn't impossible, but MOST LIKELY your quickest path to 4:30 is to get that 400 time down. Heck, even just dropping a 57, 58 time would give you more confidence to go out faster in your mile -- going out in, say, 67 feels scarier if your 400 PR is 60 than it does it your 400 PR is 57, even though its two totally different events. That mental piece is more important than a lot of people think. Getting the 400 down may just get you in the mental state you'll need to bust a mile PR, even if overall nothing really changed physiologically. Good luck!
I ran a solo 400m time trial yesterday and got a 60.9. I think I would have been a tiny bit faster if it were a race that I tapered for, but it wouldn't be by much.
Are your workouts faster than when you were a 4:35 guy? There aren't many people who run a legit 60s and a 4:35. That is very good speed endurance.
Bump, I was happily wrong on this. I got thrown in a 4x400 earlier today and anchored a 58.3 relay split. That race-day adrenaline matters a lot more than I thought even though it was just a low-level dual meet. Perhaps that 4:30 is within reach after all.
How old are you? if you’re 40 and can’t break 60 that is different than if you’re 16 and can’t break 60. if you’re older you have a better shot than if you’re in high school.
I think this is the right question. Generally, I wouldn't expect anything faster than 4:35-4:40 for someone with 400m speed > 60s. & that's for someone on the pointy end of the endurance spectrum. Would expect something in the 4:45-4:55 range for a lot of athletes. If you're a HS or college runner, then I'm very impressed because you haven't had time to fully develop your endurance. Either way, 4:30 is a tall ask without improving your speed.
There are OTQ caliber guys who have run 4:30-4:35 who have monster endurance. They can turn their mile into a sub-9 3k & 15-flat 5k. Again, pointy end here.
I was in a similar situation to you my junior year of HS. My 400m speed was about 60 high-61 low (Run in a 4x4 relay) and I pretty comfortably ran 4:35 for the 1600m at my first race of the season, leading the whole way. The rest of the season I focused on the 3200m and ended up running 9:34 so I think I could've run 4:28 or so with competition at my peak fitness. But still couldn't run under 60 in the 400 or under 27 in the 200, lol.
So if you're anything like I was I'd say you have a decent chance. Some people are all endurance.
It’s definitely possible, the “minimum 400 pr” projections for a 1600 are bs.
I’ve run 4:23 this season off of a big negative split (so I can go faster), and I’ve never broken 60. My fastest 400 is 60 high. This year I split a 61 in a 4x4. My fastest 200 time is 29 high.
But sub 16 several times in cross and sub 9:50. Did a few summer time trials with no absolutely speed work and ran 4:30. Years later I think my issue was that the pollen in the south killed my spring season. Kinda makes me wish I ran the AAU/junior-usatf circuits in the summer.
It’s definitely possible, the “minimum 400 pr” projections for a 1600 are bs.
I’ve run 4:23 this season off of a big negative split (so I can go faster), and I’ve never broken 60. My fastest 400 is 60 high. This year I split a 61 in a 4x4. My fastest 200 time is 29 high.
There is no need to lose hope, you can do this!
Completely disagree.
If you're expected to hold 67-68s for 4 laps then at the very least wouldn't the bare minimum 400 be like 67.5 or something.
If the OP really focuses on speed they could have a huge breakthrough. Or be even more of a 800 guy 🤣
Yes, you obviously need to be able to run a 400 at the same pace that you want to run a 1600 at. I was talking about the people who said you need to run a 57 or slow down 4 seconds per lap or whatever. That’s not a rule; it doesn’t apply to most people.
It’s definitely possible, the “minimum 400 pr” projections for a 1600 are bs.
I’ve run 4:23 this season off of a big negative split (so I can go faster), and I’ve never broken 60. My fastest 400 is 60 high. This year I split a 61 in a 4x4. My fastest 200 time is 29 high.
There is no need to lose hope, you can do this!
A 4:23 off of 61 speed is next to impossible and certainly one with a negative split. A 61 with a 29 high is also unbelievable.
i dont see a reason why you couldn’t. You only need to run 67.5 to run a 430. And for people saying you cant do it as a Highschool kid I disagree. I know a 14 year old who ran a 61 in a time trial, then ran a 426 full mile later in the season off 30 miles a week. It’s important to remember that its a time trial in march and it was probably colder and windier than it will be in late may.