The current US talent pool is just lacking. Nothing against the guys like Hoppel and Murphy out there still trying to make it happen, but USA couldnt even make the final in Eugene.
Say what you want about Amos but his front running, eyes bugging out style made races interesting.
Murphy and hoppel are both super talented IMO. Both just seem to be time trialers which is absolutely fine in the 800m, except for the fact that the last couple of years have been tactical finals. The 800m is just so volatile to train for, and a 2-3 second difference in fitness can make you go from a global leader to not even a medal threat.
Murphy and hoppel are both super talented IMO. Both just seem to be time trialers which is absolutely fine in the 800m, except for the fact that the last couple of years have been tactical finals. The 800m is just so volatile to train for, and a 2-3 second difference in fitness can make you go from a global leader to not even a medal threat.
Those small differences could also mean we’re not too far from an international resurgence in the event…I mean, 50 guys ran 1:44.99 or faster last year, and a number of them were 17-21 years old, so all it takes is a few guys to make one more jump and suddenly the event doesn’t seem weak at the top anymore.
One obvious name to watch is Emmanuel Wanyonyi, who ran 1:44.01 and placed 4th at Worlds while evidently just 17 years old, and looked great in the World XC relay.
The current US talent pool is just lacking. Nothing against the guys like Hoppel and Murphy out there still trying to make it happen, but USA couldnt even make the final in Eugene.
I'd argue that that there has never been this much depth in the US at 800m. The top guys from recent years have been very up and down, which is unusual, but that just leaves the door open for the next superstar to arrive. As others have mentioned, the 17yo Kenyan could be the heir apparent.
You want to see 800 performance drops, start getting the 44/45 second 400 meter guys that aren't going to win anything to move up.
This is exactly correct. In the 800, speed is the key. Find the fast guys, extend their range, and move them up. In the 800 that's far more significant than shoes will ever be. You can add strength to speed. Much harder to do the opposite well enough for high quality 800.
Here's the other critical factor. Racing experience. Top guys today simply don't race enough. The 800 is the most difficult race to learn. If you only run a high level competitive one multiple weeks apart, you simply can't build the requisite experience base. So when you get into serious international races you get outsmarted and/or manhandled.
The event needs an infusion of young talent which seems to be happening. Brazier and Korir were the two talented guys from the 2018 range. Arop has been solid, but McBride/Murphy/Giles/Tuka/Rotich might be tapped out. Now you have Moula, Wanyonyi, Kibet, Sedjati, E Girma and Burgin (snake-bitten) who seem to have 1:42 potential. It seems like if we expect the old guard to do better, we might be out of luck. We should see more high-level races with these guys now. One problem was the circuit was filled with guys filling lanes based on old credentials while being in 1:45 shape. How many races where the approach was going out in 52 and taking no chances? The Algerians have big-time agents now, and for the rest of the guys I mentioned they seem to be in better position now.
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Plenty of talent that we just haven't seen in fast, balls to the wall, racing. I know people hate Cade Flatt, but he's talented. Throw him consistently into fast races with Hoppel, Jewitt, Dixon, Brazier and see what happens. We have the talent in the US alone, give these guys a reason to actually race and chase
The 800 is my favorite event. I just think that the 2020(21) Olympics and last Worlds finals were boring races. Typically I love the 800- especially when someone takes it out.
A few years ago, it looked like the USA would own the men's 800 for years to come. Last year, it looked the same in the women's 800. Now, who knows? Which is why I suspect the current wasteland won't last as long as we fear.
Agreed. He ran 1:44.98 at Millrose and looked like he had plenty in the tank. I'll note Wycliffe Kinyamal Kisasy (made World Final and won Comm Games 800m last year), opened up in Nairobi Sunday and ran a pretty even 1:46.5 winning comfortably. So, he's in solid shape as well. He's in the Arop tier I'd say.
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Alfred Kipcheater ran a 1:44 evidently 15. Then there is a new guy out of Iten - Emmanual Dop Erpo - only 13 with a devastating kick, coached by Kiprop, and ran a negative 47/55 to win last year's World U15s by 146 meters. I predict glowing future for this kid.
Think we are seeing the impact (or lack of impact) from shoe tech in the 800. Longer events are getting large boosts in times with records going down seemingly every weekend. The 800 looks basically the same as it did in the 2010s. The insanity of the distance performances are making the 800, which doesn’t get the same shoe bump in racing and training (unless 800 guy is very aerobic based with higher mileage), look lame in comparison.
It's funny people think a shoe makes a big difference when you're running 57 second 400's in a mile but not 53 second 400's in an 800. By this logic a 4:05 miler is getting more benefit than a 3:50 miler since apparently you are helped more by being slow?
I think the bigger factor is that the 800 is the event where you run the fastest while not needing to stay in your lane. The 800 is the event where drafting makes the biggest difference, since wind resistance force is exponential and not linear. When you have guys like Rudisha/Amos/Brazier running crazy fast it pulls everyone else behind them to faster times, more so than other events where the average pace is slower. Right now the top few guys are out of the game, so the field as a whole has less people to draft off and get crazy fast times. You might have a pacer for 400 meters, but those other guys used to be pacers for 800 meters (the whole race). Once an absolute stud comes back into the game it'll pull everyone else back to fast times and things will seem more impressive again.
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