Challenged by a 3rd-Degree Female Blackbelt in Shotokan karate

karatesux wrote:

She has 20 years experience in Shokotan karate, and is 5'4, 110 lbs. I am 6'3 215 pounds, former soccer palyer and cross country runner. But i can hit really hard and have muscular rigid legs. What are my chances?

i have a blackbelt in karate (shorin ryu) having practised it in grade school to high school. i just can't imagine a 3rd dan blackbelt challenging you to a fight. what have you done to her?

it is a mistake to think that there are no throws ang grabs in karate. these, and other "nasty" techniques like hitting the troat, eyes or sweeps that are not emphasized in lower levels are all taught in higher levels (black belt up).

at her level she's also practising full contact sparrings with one and multiple opponents.

at her level she's already very very good. she can easily break your knees with an easy kick or break your ankle as she tries to sweep you.

don't fight her. you can get very hurt. after all, she's a girl

size matters,

he will kill her, even with a broken ankle.

One uppercut from an athlete his size will hurt this very small woman, for a long bit.

He is exactly the same size as Ali in his prime.

My brother has trained with a a former IBF Welterweight World Champion, my brother was a good amateur, but he is 6-2 200 pounds. He would beat the World Champion. He could hurt the smaller man with just his jabs.

Size matters.

bump

for one, don't do this. i don't care why she challenged you, if you win and beat up a 110 pound woman, you'll look like a douche bag. if she wins, you'll look like a fool. it's no-win for you.

however, here's my analysis anyway. shotokan is not tae kwon do. if she kicks at you, it will be at your waist or lower (most likely your knees). in shotokan, the "sparring" is not done with any padding, and at the higher levels, people get arms, noses, hands, etc broken. no flashy techniques, and she'll do whatever it takes to neutralize you (throat, eyes, kneecaps, balls). as for the question about how hard it is to get to 3rd dan in shotokan: very hard. the tests are extremely rigorous (if she is in a traditional school), and people often have to retake tests multiple times. however, you weigh twice as much as she does, so i still think you'd win; if you connect one hit or get her on the ground, it's over. but don't fight her though, win or lose you will look foolish.

Quotes about poker:

"If, after the first twenty minutes, you don't know who the sucker at the table is, it's you."

You sound like a big dumb gorilla. Dude I'll help you and the rest of your stupid counterparts her with this, she wouldn't be challenging you if she didn't think that she could take you.

I think the quote is 30 minutes... but it's beside the point.

Most of the responses on here are correct. Most martial arts have very disciplined methodologies. There are several videos out there showing how a more wild grappling strategy can overcome such a fighting style.

Basically, you wouldn't want to concern yourself with reach. You being far away from her actually puts her in the advantage, because she's able to do the things she has trained to do.

Close the distance between you and her and use your size as leverage to take that away.

I thought that it was illegal for a legitimately trained blackbelt to seriously fight another person except in self-defense.

mplatt wrote:

That is too much size to overcome.

Yep, I think mplatt got it right. A 215-pound male against any 110-pound female is going to be a rout in the male's favor unless the female is either 1) incredibly aggressive, highly trained and skilled at hitting disabling targets in sequence, and following through while under the adrenal stress of a real fight or 2) incredibly lucky and hits a couple of those targets by sheer chance, then has the presence of mind to finish it off before the opponent can recover (or pull a weapon).

That's not to say there are no 110-pound females who fit category 1, because there are (almost all come from extensive training in one of the Special Forces systems, not from any Asian martial arts). And case 2 is always a possibility, made somewhat more likely if the female in question is a martial arts expert and knows about those targets. But most people who do a martial art - even for 20 years - don't fit that first category. They expect techniques and scenario-based training to work for them. Fighting techniques don't make the fighter and don't win fights. It's an offensive mindset, total aggression, hitting first, using the adrenal response to invest more power in your attack rather than having it shut you down, fighting in a subconsious state, hitting targets which will produce a desired and hopefully incapacitating effect, and following through until the hostility is stopped ... that's what wins fights. And if you're way smaller than your attacker, you have to be extra adept at all those things, because you can't afford to screw up and give that other guy a chance. A completely untrained streetfighter is usually better at most of this than over 90% of people who learn martial arts and therefore has a big advantage in a real fight! In fact, most martial artists learn only the next-to-last concept in that list - if they learn that one. And that's an important one to learn if you want to get the upper hand on the streetfighter, but if you don't learn and apply the other concepts, you're taken out of the fight before you can ever hit the streetfighter anyway.

So if you're going to fight somebody - even if you know they are a martial arts expert and possibly a very skilled sport fighter - you must attack and dominate, never giving them a chance to fight at all. Make them go defensive in fear, because that will not stop your aggression. If you outweigh somebody by over 100 pounds and you take it to them from the start, their only chances are those two that I gave above, even if they're highly skilled in a martial art. Believe me, a 215-pound man charging with murder in his eyes and projecting that he will not give up until he's stomped his opponent's head into raspberry jam is going to terrify a 110-pound woman who has never had to face that kind of real attack! If you have to fight, use that to your advantage and don't think about what might happen!

Another word about grappling - good grapplers who can also punch and kick adequately are almost always the best one-on-one fighters. MMA competitions have shown that. So tackling, wrapping up and throwing down works in real fights and can beat or at least neutralize superior punching and kicking skills. Therefore, if you have a huge size advantage, even if you don't know how to fight, just attacking without warning and taking your opponent to the ground and pounding him before he can fight back will often be all you'll need. That's all you should do, in fact, because you don't have any "skills." This works especially well if the "him" is a "her" who's only 110 pounds. But remember - in the street, if you have to face more than one person or if anyone has weapons, staying on the ground longer than about 1.5 seconds instantly becomes the worst thing you can do. So if you're one of those BJJ guys or wrestlers and you can totally outclass a guy one-on-one, knock your man out ASAP and get off the ground. You don't know if his buddies will appear from behind a building with crowbars and you don't want to be caught showing off how effective your arm bar is when they do.

So yes, size does matter. If it's 215 pounds vs. 110 pounds, just charge in there and dominate. The smaller person would have to be nearly world class or just stupidly lucky to have a chance.

dude, it will be just like this (you being the tabby):

http://www.lekstuga.org/funstuff/movies/cat_fight.mpg

This is totally fake, but I've had experience with this sort of thing in a fake "fight club" style situation. Granted, this is real so she'll be trying to kill you as opposed to what I did for fun, but like everbody said:

Wear a Cup.

Get her to the ground.

Don't get kicked in the head.

Watch some videos of MMA fighting and see what happens to karate people against grapplers. THere's a great one of a similar situation: A 10th dan or whatever karate guy vs. a shootfighter that outweighed him by 40 pounds. The karate guy starts witha jump kick and a bunch of cheesy roundhouses. The shootfighter let's him blow his wad, runs in, picks him up and slams him on his head. Total time: 38 seconds before the karate guy was in convulsions.

Now if she's had any grappling training at all, you're SOL.

some good responses, im confident i could handle her

If someone tells you to give her a roundhouse kick I swear to god I will vomit.

i disagree with that, at 5'4, wouldnt it still be hard for her to lift me, assuming im not standing still?

UFC & Pride championships have shown that rushing and tackling those blackbelts are extremely successful. Plus, you'll have the pleasure of turning it into a wrestling match. :)

Mtn Dew wrote:

Just spear her ass like a linebacker and she'll go down. Wear a cup and watch your throat and eyes and you'll be fine. If you don't know what you're doing don't stand around like you do, that's what she's counting on. Just charge at her and grab her and toss her around some.

Sorry Mtn Dew. I see that you beat me to that advice.

If she has mastered Chin Na or another similar grappling technique, you are probably not going to be able to beat her. Along with her striking and blocking techniques you probably don't have the skills to beat her. Of course anyone can loose a fight at any time. There some luck involved when winning a fight.

If you run at her she will just move out of the way and whack you from behind. If you do happen to grab her she will just use your weight against you and slam your but to the ground. Even with a bear hug you may have control of her but you will not be able to hurt her, and she will find a way to get out of it sooner or later. I always believe in a good choke hold. It often makes your opponent panic, and they may take the focus off of hurting you. It is very difficult to get out of a good strong choke hold and your opponent may pass out. With your size that is what I recommend. Just put her in a choke hold from behind and drop down to the ground. This will immobilize her legs. By keeping your chest pressed up against he back you will also keep her from being able to twist out of the choke hold. You may still have to worry about her clawing at you, and possibly elbowing you. This may hurt, but as long as she can't gouge your eyes out you should be able handle the minor scrapes and blows.

Getting her into a choke hold is another story. You can probably power your way to getting her into one, but you will more than likely get the crap kicked out if you if you try. It has already been mentioned she will probably go for the groin or neck. These are very soft area's. They both hurt like hell and can do a lot of damage. If you can protect these two area's you may have a chance. Wear a cup and protect the neck.

I don't recomend getting into a fight if you can help it though. It serves no purpose. The martial arts are for self defense after being attacked. I am surprised she would purposely want to get into a fight unless you really ticked her off.

as far as I know, she is just a 3rd dan at shotokan. Do you know anything about the techniques that must be mastered to reach that level?

kartelite wrote:

dude, it will be just like this (you being the tabby):

http://www.lekstuga.org/funstuff/movies/cat_fight.mpg

I nominate nate this for POST OF THE YEAR

iloverunning wrote:

kartelite wrote:

dude, it will be just like this (you being the tabby):

http://www.lekstuga.org/funstuff/movies/cat_fight.mpg

I nominate nate this for POST OF THE YEAR

Agreed. That's some funny shit.