4:02 Japanese high schooler - Sonata Nagashima - runs 28:31 10k. Which American HSers in history could do this?

Let's take a closer look wrote:

jappies wrote:

Wake me up when a japanese runs under 13:08. Did you know barely out of high school Cooper Teare has run faster than any Japanese in history? US is so far ahead of japan in mid D its crazy. Cooper would be the Ronaldo/Jordan/Tyson Fury of track in Japan.

So what? Nobody disputes the fact - yes, fact - that USA is better at mid-D than Japan. However, as you look at longer distances, the opposite is true. And at high school distance running, Japan beats the US easily. True, they lose big at high school mid-D. At 800m, the US beats Japan hands down if you're looking at 15 year olds or 30 year olds. Enough said. Not what the thread is about.

OK, so the real elephant in the room is the USA's performance record - or lack threreof - at teenage distance running. The standard argument goes as follows:

Every 14 yo on every HS team could easily beat Chapa's record if they ever actually ran a 10000. Newbury's 7th man, their coach, parents, janitor, all of them would make a mockery of US HS distance times. They just don't care to try.

Perhaps I'm being mildly hyperbolic. Nobody has literally said every single person living in NP's school district, as well as Loudon Valley and Fayette-Manlius, and every 70 yo alumnus of those could break US HS distance records. I exagerrate. Slightly. But what many of you claim is not all that far off.

What IS regularly stated, and has been in this thread, is that the Seniors, the stars anyway, at top programs could. Chapa's record is a gift from Brosnan. He could have, at any time, called up the Sound Running guy and put his whole squad in a 25-lapper. Have a BTC race right after that everybody has fun watching. These events happen in SoCal (near NP) as it is. And if we're being completely serious, you don't all believe 7 or 8 guys get the record. But most of you seem to think 1 or maybe more do. This is widely believed.

How do we know whether or not this is the case? One way is to have a HS race at a Sound event. Or let Youngs and Sahlmans run in the Open race. Chapa's run was not HS only, after all. But here's a way that is NOT theoretical. Americans, for better or worse, run NCAA after HS. The good ones mentioned in this thread - Rupp, Ritz, Lindgren, Chapa, Chez - did. So they were suddenly in a world where running more than 2 miles WAS socially acceptable. College coaches, parents, teammates, and the court of public opinion all want these guys to run 10k. Not just allow it. Actively want the slow-twitch stars to score at Conference and, ideally, medal at Nats.

Here's how to tell if the HS records are laughably soft: every one mentioned above, in their Freshman seasons, goes well under the existing HS records. If you can break it by a good margin at 18-1/2, you may have gotten close at 17-1/2. You just never got around to it. Then, we know plenty of kids could break the HS 5000 and Steeple records, and especially 10000. Because they all (the well-known HS stars, anyway) do it pretty easily the first chance they have only a single year older. But is that what happens? Does every kid coming out of NP go under Chapa's time their first collegiate season? Absolutely not.

The squad that 'rewrote the high school record books' (Wejo's exact words) will have chances to do exactly that in a few months. (In actuality, they only have a single record: the rarely-run indoor 4Xmile record.) The only individual record that program had generated was run by Nico. He's perhaps the biggest deal coming out of US HS track recently. He's had 2 outdoor seasons to destroy Chapa's time. And hasn't.

Feel free to post the true Freshman distance PRs (5000 but especially 10000) of every much-hyped incoming collegian. Have any as true Freshman gone under the current US HS records in recent years? Did Katelyn first year? Will Natalie this coming June? If she can't do it at 20, it's a safe bet she couldn't have at 18. Nico still hasn't. If it is true that any random kid, or even just a few, could pretty easily get the HS 10k records if just given the chance, then surely quite a few could do it a year older, when they all actually and literally DO have the chance.

For the record, I'm not saying today's youth are no good. Many, and certainly all those mentioned above, are very good. Just saying that kids of the past - especially HS record holders and specifically Chapa - were truly great.

Let\'s take a closer look wrote:

jappies wrote:

Wake me up when a japanese runs under 13:08. Did you know barely out of high school Cooper Teare has run faster than any Japanese in history? US is so far ahead of japan in mid D its crazy. Cooper would be the Ronaldo/Jordan/Tyson Fury of track in Japan.

So what? Nobody disputes the fact - yes, fact - that USA is better at mid-D than Japan. However, as you look at longer distances, the opposite is true. And at high school distance running, Japan beats the US easily. True, they lose big at high school mid-D. At 800m, the US beats Japan hands down if you're looking at 15 year olds or 30 year olds. Enough said. Not what the thread is about.

OK, so the real elephant in the room is the USA's performance record - or lack threreof - at teenage distance running. The standard argument goes as follows:

Every 14 yo on every HS team could easily beat Chapa's record if they ever actually ran a 10000. Newbury's 7th man, their coach, parents, janitor, all of them would make a mockery of US HS distance times. They just don't care to try.

Perhaps I'm being mildly hyperbolic. Nobody has literally said every single person living in NP's school district, as well as Loudon Valley and Fayette-Manlius, and every 70 yo alumnus of those could break US HS distance records. I exagerrate. Slightly. But what many of you claim is not all that far off.

What IS regularly stated, and has been in this thread, is that the Seniors, the stars anyway, at top programs could. Chapa's record is a gift from Brosnan. He could have, at any time, called up the Sound Running guy and put his whole squad in a 25-lapper. Have a BTC race right after that everybody has fun watching. These events happen in SoCal (near NP) as it is. And if we're being completely serious, you don't all believe 7 or 8 guys get the record. But most of you seem to think 1 or maybe more do. This is widely believed.

How do we know whether or not this is the case? One way is to have a HS race at a Sound event. Or let Youngs and Sahlmans run in the Open race. Chapa's run was not HS only, after all. But here's a way that is NOT theoretical. Americans, for better or worse, run NCAA after HS. The good ones mentioned in this thread - Rupp, Ritz, Lindgren, Chapa, Chez - did. So they were suddenly in a world where running more than 2 miles WAS socially acceptable. College coaches, parents, teammates, and the court of public opinion all want these guys to run 10k. Not just allow it. Actively want the slow-twitch stars to score at Conference and, ideally, medal at Nats.

Here's how to tell if the HS records are laughably soft: every one mentioned above, in their Freshman seasons, goes well under the existing HS records. If you can break it by a good margin at 18-1/2, you may have gotten close at 17-1/2. You just never got around to it. Then, we know plenty of kids could break the HS 5000 and Steeple records, and especially 10000. Because they all (the well-known HS stars, anyway) do it pretty easily the first chance they have only a single year older. But is that what happens? Does every kid coming out of NP go under Chapa's time their first collegiate season? Absolutely not.

The squad that 'rewrote the high school record books' (Wejo's exact words) will have chances to do exactly that in a few months. (In actuality, they only have a single record: the rarely-run indoor 4Xmile record.) The only individual record that program had generated was run by Nico. He's perhaps the biggest deal coming out of US HS track recently. He's had 2 outdoor seasons to destroy Chapa's time. And hasn't.

Feel free to post the true Freshman distance PRs (5000 but especially 10000) of every much-hyped incoming collegian. Have any as true Freshman gone under the current US HS records in recent years? Did Katelyn first year? Will Natalie this coming June? If she can't do it at 20, it's a safe bet she couldn't have at 18. Nico still hasn't. If it is true that any random kid, or even just a few, could pretty easily get the HS 10k records if just given the chance, then surely quite a few could do it a year older, when they all actually and literally DO have the chance.

For the record, I'm not saying today's youth are no good. Many, and certainly all those mentioned above, are very good. Just saying that kids of the past - especially HS record holders and specifically Chapa - were truly great.