Olympic Trials / USA National Championship Marathon

What are the extra costs, if the b qualifiers paid airfare and lodging the only cost would be holding the course open for an additional 8 minutes? F the gift bags. Nuthin good in their anyways.

I have to agree with this idea. For a lot of guys just having the possibility of making the Oly marathon trials would keep them in the game after college. Even for a 30 flat 10k guy, a 2:22 marathon isn't the easiest thing in the world for a first marathon. Then after continued years of training a 30 flat college guy might be a 2:18 marathoner. But if he runs a marathon right after college and only runs say 2:27-28, he might not have the motivation to keep running marathons.

Now some might say a 2:22 marathoner has no chance in making the team anyway and shouldn't be in the trials. Well who cares. The idea is development of the sport. Anything that keeps competitive runners going is good for the sport. Who knows we might have some guy running 3:50s for 1500 in college only getting in 30-40 miles a week. Then he does a marathon after college and ups his mileage to 60-70 and runs 2:29 and gets into the trials. So then he takes it more seriously and starts getting in 100+ miles a week and runs 2:17. That guy might not have thought about running a second marathon if it wasn't for making the trials.

I suspect that the concern for Elizabeth P and any race director would be logistics of the small details that make for a great experience and one fitting the Oly Trials, not just any old marathon. So they would want every person to get a "goodie bag" of whatever, shirt, sweatshirt, video of the Trials, and more. And they would have a nice banquet or two, and IF a multiloop course, that could be a challenge for the aid stations, special drinks, etc., plus getting all athletes to the start/finish (and to/from airport?). Again, if the Oly Trials, people should be well treated even if they don't get expenses covered. Takes a lot of volunteers and coordination, though it can be done, and I support the change of time standards. Takes a heaping help of added planning.

Yeah but here's the deal, I don't think that "real" runners care about the goodie bags and all that stuff, they just want to run. This isn't like the average dude fired up to run the Chicago marathon under 5 hours.

I guarantee you most guys wouldn't care about anything other then getting a race number and getting to the line to compete. They wouldn't expect anything else special, be happy with a t-shirt at most and the memory.

In 1972 I doubt they worried about A and B standards and all this stuff.

Basically here it was:

1972 Olympic Trials Marathon - Any man who has run a sub 2:30 marathon is invited at their own expense. Best wishes to all trying to make the USA Olympic Team, see you in Eugene.

Why do we make the simplest sport on earth so complicated?

I'm a 2:32 marathon runner. Let me know when they lower the standards to 2:30 and I will be at the 2008 OT starting line guaranteed at my own expense. All I ask for is a chip and a race number.

Just so everyone is on the same page....usatf puts in zero dollars for the Olympic marathon trials. In fact, I believe they are asking for a rights fee for this year, which would have them making a significant amount of money off the deal. As someone who has been very active in the process, (and very critical), but is now out of the picture, I must agree that a field of 300 would be much too difficult to accomodate. This would primarily be to trouble at the aid stations. I would like to see a field of 200 for both the men and the women.

Assuming a revised standard of 2:25 or 2:30, if anybody running a mens loop course gets lapped, they should be shot. (Unless it's 26 x a mile)

Tax the Rich! wrote:

Why pay travel and housing for anyone? If there is any race that serious/legit runners can get their national or regional shoe sponsor, running store, employee, or Kiwanis to drop $500-$1000 investment, this is it.

I am sure that this statement was probably written tongue in cheek but you present another problem. None of the above folks are permitted to sponsor a local athlete and put their name on the athletes chest unless they are also a sponsor of the USOC. NO KIWANIS---NO LOCAL RUNNING STORE---NO REGIONAL SHOE SPONSOR.

What rule are you referring too?

You can wear anything on your singlet that you want to.

You don't have to be officially affiliated with anyone to run in the race. I know guys who ran in the trials who sponsored by all kinds of organizations.

If you want to wear boxer shorts and a fishnet singlet with a painting of Ronald McDonald on it then there is no rule against it.

Mark wrote:

If you want to wear boxer shorts and a fishnet singlet with a painting of Ronald McDonald on it then there is no rule against it.

except that ronald must meet certain size requirements. otherwise, his ass will be covered with duct tape.

You are wrong. You can not wear anything that is 1. NOT AN OFFICIAL USATF CLUB. OR 2. ANY SPONSOR THAT IS NOT A USOC SPONSOR. They made us have our uniforms inspected and they put duct tape over the violations. So now if Jims Hardware wants to send the local 2:22 guy off to the trials on Jims Hardware's dime, he can not put his name on the athlete. Rather than fight this interpretation of the rule with the USOC, USATF actually enforced it.

We need more runners having loftier goals in order to have greater success.

I get aggravated each time I see a thred such as this one. It appears that many think the goal of the trials is to increase the number of runners that can make the Olympic trials standard.

We need higher goals. The top 100 from the 18 months before the marathon trials sounds right.

The goal should be an Olympic gold medal or as close as one can come to it. The lower ones goals are the lo;wer the achievemant.

I can assure you that the runners of the 70s and before had much loftier goals than going to the trials. One must aim for the top spot to have any chance of achieving it.

Mills, Schul and Shorter did not have goals of anything less than gold.

While this may sound odd, I as a 22 year old 2:37 guy, would rather the standard stay where it is. For me one of the big goals is getting the time down over a period of time, not easy so I can do it in a year or two. I'm sorry, but the people who don't love the sport enough to stick it out for years just to see what happens (especially in a race as difficult and technical as the marathon) need to find another sport. It's not supposed to be easy, it's not supposed to come quickly out of college. Where have the people gone who simply look at the standard, want to reach it, and then map out their lives to accomplish it?

You can call me full of it, but making the trials because they made it 8 minutes easier would leave me a bit ambivilant.

JSI wrote:

I'm a 2:32 marathon runner. Let me know when they lower the standards to 2:30 and I will be at the 2008 OT starting line guaranteed at my own expense. All I ask for is a chip and a race number.

(2:36 debut marathon here) I'd pay my own way, pay for any goodie bag given out and pay an entry fee on top of that for the chance to run.

Good post blank_

Mihaly Igloi always said "Must have big goals".

How many on here know that in 1964 the United States had at least one runner in the top 6 in every male running event in the Tokyo Olympics.

Why wouldn't a 2:36 marathoner have a goal of at least making the Olympic Team?

Orville Atkins wrote:

I get aggravated each time I see a thred such as this one...The lower ones goals are the lower the achievemant.

I can assure you that the runners of the 70s and before had much loftier goals than going to the trials.

I see. Apparently, you missed the part where the topic creator explained that the Olympic Trials qualifying standard for the men in 1972 was 2:30? In spite of this so-called lower goal, in Munich Frank Shorter took home the gold, Kenny Moore finished in 4th place, and Jack Bachelor crossed the line in 9th place. We probably would have done even better than that, but Jeff Galloway had already made the team in the 10,000, so he paced Bachelor during the marathon trials and let him take 3rd place ahead of him.

A rather impressive showing for the U.S. men's team, despite having to compete under the umbrella of a lower goal, wouldn't you say?

Just curious, in 1964 how many runners in the USA ran under 2:30 for a marathon, or sub 14:00 5k or sub 29:00 10k? How about the rest of the world for that matter?

Orville, I don't think the bottom line Olympic Trials marathon standard has anything to do with international success. That's not the point here. The guys who make the team will still be the best guys out there. That's not going to change. Alan Culpepper is going to run 2:10 regardless of if Joe Smith runs 2:20, 2:30 or 3:00.

And just for the record, if you factor out the guys around the world who are probably using performance enhancing drugs, then the US would be looking pretty darn good right now. No offense, but Jim Ryun is about the only guy running from 1964 still on any USA all-time top 10 list for the 800m-marathon. I'd say on the top end our guys are running some pretty good times, the 5000m and 10,000m lists are as stacked as anytime in US history.

No offense to the best guys in 1964, I have tremendous respect for the them as runners no doubt about it, their times would still be considered solid today, but it gets old hearing that same song over and over. It's not 1964, the rest of the world woke up and joined the party, the depth in distance running is incredible now with runners coming from all corners of the globe. For instance in 2003 there were 101 countries represented in college track and field/cross country. I can guarantee that wasn't the case in 1964, maybe 5-10 countries at best.

My point was simply that the USA Olympic Trials is "our race, we the USA can do it the way we want to". We should use this race to promote our sport, encourage the development of younger runners and make the most of this once every four years event to add quality depth and development back into the ranks of US marathoning past the top 10-15 guys who are sponsored.

Bigger goals and better competition lead to better results at the top. I still think that the trials should be limited to the top 100 marathoners. The training ground should be developed during the 4 years before the Olympics. The trials are to pick a team not to train marathoners. I suggest you read Schul's book.

By the way, the world record in 1964, before the Olympics, was 2:13.55. Just the lowering of that standard is an aid to the runners of today.

One plus we had in 1964 was that I saw nothing of drugs. However, since then training has improved, tracks have improved, shoes are decidedly better, there are splits and water on courses, there is knowledge of ice baths, courses are certified, there is altitude training and there are gels and other helpful aids.

I'm certainly far from 2:30, but it would give me something to shoot for in the future. Sounds like a great idea.