As Coevett proves over and over again, running is the one sport Westerners feel at a disadvantage to Africans and always approach with an inferiority complex because it's a level playing field and you don't need money to access. Everybody in the world runs. And Africans, particularly Kenyans and Ethiopians, are empirically better than the rest of the world put together.
All the world's best runners learn from them, have to copy their training methods and replicate their conditions to compete. Next year, I can guarantee you an unknown name from either Kenya or Ethiopia will emerge and cause waves in the sport. I can't speak with the same certainty about the UK, US or Norway.
In how many sports do Kenyans compete at the Olympics? Between 2000-2016, about 70% of their Olympians were athletes, less than 10% were boxers and rugby sevens players. Then you have few swimmers and very rare individual appearances in archery, cycling, judo, taekwondo, rowing, weightlifting. Ten sports altogether - and this is the second most diverse sports participation in sub-Saharan Africa (after South Africa).
When you compare it with Spain - a European country of similar population size that is likewise athletically oriented - only about 15% of their Olympians were athletes and their sportsmen participated in 31 Olympic sports, mostly in numbers that are far higher than symbolic (basketball, canoeing, cycling, field hockey, football, handball, tennis, waterpolo...) You (and not only you) do not realize that you compare apples with bananas.
Oh the “degraded” performances of East Africa who have more sub-13s than ever? How about this: Jakob is special and believes he can be the best. He also trains harder, longer and more effectively than his predecessors.
That's a large part due to the shoes and tracks, and the shift of Italian and Spanish managers to Uganda to unearth the new 'natural born runners' now that they can no longer feed 16 year old Kenyans EPO with impunity.
Yes, Jakob's belief has a lot to do with it. Would he have the same belief if he had been the oldest Ingebrigtsen, and didn't have his older brothers (and the likes of Jake Wightman and Nick Willis) as proof that European descent runners can compete with East Africans?
That's a large part due to the shoes and tracks, and the shift of Italian and Spanish managers to Uganda to unearth the new 'natural born runners' now that they can no longer feed 16 year old Kenyans EPO with impunity.
Yes, Jakob's belief has a lot to do with it. Would he have the same belief if he had been the oldest Ingebrigtsen, and didn't have his older brothers (and the likes of Jake Wightman and Nick Willis) as proof that European descent runners can compete with East Africans?
Those guys did nothing in the 5,000 and up. I’m sure Jakob was encouraged by his brothers, but non-Africans have thrived in the 1500 forever. Your name alludes to it. Again, Morceli, El Guerrouj and maybe Kiprop/full throttle Makhloufi are the only runners so good as to discourage anyone from what was being done on the 80s by your heroes.
We need all races and countries to run and succeed. How boring would it be if only 1 area/country dominated? I enjoyed watching the US run this weekend but its gonna get old if the US keeps winning the sprints. It's refreshing to see JI win some distance events bc it is normally Africans. I'm a fan of all runners, we are all part of the same group we should cheer and support all nationalities.
As Coevett proves over and over again, running is the one sport Westerners feel at a disadvantage to Africans and always approach with an inferiority complex because it's a level playing field and you don't need money to access. Everybody in the world runs. And Africans, particularly Kenyans and Ethiopians, are empirically better than the rest of the world put together.
All the world's best runners learn from them, have to copy their training methods and replicate their conditions to compete. Next year, I can guarantee you an unknown name from either Kenya or Ethiopia will emerge and cause waves in the sport. I can't speak with the same certainty about the UK, US or Norway.
Its quite unfair to compare Kenya with Norway as with their 55 million inhabitants and incredible running culture has more sub 2.08 runners than Norway had inhabitants (jk). So ofcourse you cant say that with the same same certainty. Kenyas C tier athletes would be a top 5 Norwegian even if we count the Ingebrigtsens. However you, as a Kenyan, shouldn't feel to inferior that you need to take digs on a winter nation with 5 mill inhabitants. Its quite unseemingly and weird.
Warholm already proved that Africans aren't anything special. No African can ever compare to him. This from a tiny nation-Norway. And like most European, N. American countries, running is a side show that gets lost in a myriad of other sports and activities. This is like a major sport and activity in Kenya & Ethiopia, so for a guy from one of these highly developed countries to dominate just shows how some who get lost in the false ideology that there is some sort of natural talent only in specific locations are so confused and insecure. Jakob (and Jake) now showing they can dominate 1500-5000 easily. The meat of running. Remember, the closest that E. Africans got in the 1500 was 5th place! So it sure isnt some outlier. Europeans are dominating. In the 5000, Fisher is starting to get close. Europeans and Americans are starting to push in on that distance as well. Only advantage E. Africans can have is having people who are much lighter in weight on average. This is especially helpful in the 10000m and above. Absolutely in marathon. Not much else.
Its quite unfair to compare Kenya with Norway as with their 55 million inhabitants and incredible running culture has more sub 2.08 runners than Norway had inhabitants (jk). So ofcourse you cant say that with the same same certainty. Kenyas C tier athletes would be a top 5 Norwegian even if we count the Ingebrigtsens. However you, as a Kenyan, shouldn't feel to inferior that you need to take digs on a winter nation with 5 mill inhabitants. Its quite unseemingly and weird.
Warholm already proved that Africans aren't anything special. No African can ever compare to him. This from a tiny nation-Norway. And like most European, N. American countries, running is a side show that gets lost in a myriad of other sports and activities. This is like a major sport and activity in Kenya & Ethiopia, so for a guy from one of these highly developed countries to dominate just shows how some who get lost in the false ideology that there is some sort of natural talent only in specific locations are so confused and insecure. Jakob (and Jake) now showing they can dominate 1500-5000 easily. The meat of running. Remember, the closest that E. Africans got in the 1500 was 5th place! So it sure isnt some outlier. Europeans are dominating. In the 5000, Fisher is starting to get close. Europeans and Americans are starting to push in on that distance as well. Only advantage E. Africans can have is having people who are much lighter in weight on average. This is especially helpful in the 10000m and above. Absolutely in marathon. Not much else.
It sure helps to have the best doping regimens. Well done Norwegians.
Jakob seems to be the “great white hope” for insecure LetsRun runners who can’t handle seeing East African runners dominate
As I said above, people do not realize that this "domination" has a lot to do with participation. How do you explain that the 1500 m was predominantly white/European, whereas the 800 m was (and often is) majority East African or African? This just does not make any sense from the physiological point of view. I have long been perplexed by this but eventually, I realized that the explanation is very trivial: The 1500 m/mile is viewed as more prestigious in Europe and hence it attracts more runners.
Jakob seems to be the “great white hope” for insecure LetsRun runners who can’t handle seeing East African runners dominate
Unfortunately for you, its all over East African runners. No one needs a white hope anymore as there is now a clear champion. You need to find a "great black hope". Jakob is KING. You poor things must feel so hurt & insecure right now. And Jake is KING.
Jakob won that at a canter. Despite the heat, despite the fact he had ran 3 rounds of the 1500m, including a sub 3:30 just 5 days ago, despite needing to grab a water, despite hardly ever running the 5000m - he absolutely destroyed the best East African distance runners in the world over 5000m.
One Norwegian family decides to switch from the familiar route of xcountry skiing, and go into distance running, and all become elite, with the youngest (so far) dominating.
Jakob is a rare and phenomenal talent, but I doubt if there are not quite a few more Jakobs out there in Europe if they had somebody like Gjert as a father pushing them into distance running at an early age. In fact, there are several 'next Jakobs' in Scandinavia alone emerging, both male and female.
When I started posting here 5 years ago, there had only ever been one non-East African who had ever won a DL 1500m, let alone a 5000m. Few believed there would ever be a European men's 1500m champ again, let alone in a distance event. Of course, it's a large part due to better testing finally being introduced to East Africa, which has not only degraded the performances of East Africans, but it's spurred on the rest of the world, who now can believe they are competing on a more level playing field.
The myth is over.
And Max would have won the 800m, and Keely was impeded by Mu.
And let's give Jake Wightman the 100% credit he deserves for beating Jakob, who unlike as some were saying the other day, is clearly at his very best here.
Just to bust your bubble,Euros have a long way to go to even be competitive with Africans. 36 total medals up for grabs 800 to marathon men and women,Euros collected a measly 6,Africans 30. And swallow this,overall 66 medals on the track minus relays,Euros could only muster all of 10.In fact 100 to 400 just 2 Euros both women made a final,not a single Euro male made it out of rounds. Euros should not bother themselves about competing with Africans,not gonna happen.It is the Asians Euros should be fretting about because the Asians are coming and are you about to blow by them
Only advantage E. Africans can have is having people who are much lighter in weight on average. This is especially helpful in the 10000m and above. Absolutely in marathon. Not much else.
Not completely. When your glycogen stores are depleted (after cca 90 minutes of running), your body will shift to producing energy from fats, which means that your running speed must slow down. Those runners, who have somewhat more muscle can store more glycogen and they don't need to slow down so early. Naturally, it is about finding the balance between glycogen stores and running economy. Still, marathon runners are routinely heavier than 10 000 m runners and their somatotype is close to that of 1500 m runners. But they differ from the 1500 m runners by their much shorter height (ca. 170 cm).
Given that the height of Europeans has increased by ca. 15 cm during the last 150 years, it is natural that the numbers of their potential marathon talents have decreased as well.
Jakob won that at a canter. Despite the heat, despite the fact he had ran 3 rounds of the 1500m, including a sub 3:30 just 5 days ago, despite needing to grab a water, despite hardly ever running the 5000m - he absolutely destroyed the best East African distance runners in the world over 5000m.
One Norwegian family decides to switch from the familiar route of xcountry skiing, and go into distance running, and all become elite, with the youngest (so far) dominating.
Jakob is a rare and phenomenal talent, but I doubt if there are not quite a few more Jakobs out there in Europe if they had somebody like Gjert as a father pushing them into distance running at an early age. In fact, there are several 'next Jakobs' in Scandinavia alone emerging, both male and female.
When I started posting here 5 years ago, there had only ever been one non-East African who had ever won a DL 1500m, let alone a 5000m. Few believed there would ever be a European men's 1500m champ again, let alone in a distance event. Of course, it's a large part due to better testing finally being introduced to East Africa, which has not only degraded the performances of East Africans, but it's spurred on the rest of the world, who now can believe they are competing on a more level playing field.
The myth is over.
And Max would have won the 800m, and Keely was impeded by Mu.
And let's give Jake Wightman the 100% credit he deserves for beating Jakob, who unlike as some were saying the other day, is clearly at his very best here.
Just to bust your bubble,Euros have a long way to go to even be competitive with Africans. 36 total medals up for grabs 800 to marathon men and women,Euros collected a measly 6,Africans 30. And swallow this,overall 66 medals on the track minus relays,Euros could only muster all of 10.In fact 100 to 400 just 2 Euros both women made a final,not a single Euro male made it out of rounds. Euros should not bother themselves about competing with Africans,not gonna happen.It is the Asians Euros should be fretting about because the Asians are coming and are you about to blow by them
Actually for the medals that matter it looks like this:
800- Max Burgin-GOLD (gold falsely awarded to Korir but he is slow. Max didnt show up and is worlde leader)
1500- Whightman-GOLD
5000-Jakob-GOLD
3000SC- ElBakkali-GOLD (Bakkali is a European background guy)
Yep. The "East African genetic superiority" or "culture of running" myths are some of the most pathetic, laughable doping dodges I have ever seen. Not a shred of evidence for them, and there is an overwhelmingly obvious alternative explanation that easily accounts for the disparity, EPO/PEDs. Coupled with official corruption and the absence of meaningful testing and it easily accounts for everything we see in the sport.
Except that East Africans who immigrate to other parts of the world with better testing, or who are simply born in the West, are also winning. Athing Mu. Marco Arop. Mo Ahmed. Hassan. And so on.
They are great running. This in no way means that Europeans cannot compete and beat them. Both are true.
Just to bust your bubble,Euros have a long way to go to even be competitive with Africans. 36 total medals up for grabs 800 to marathon men and women,Euros collected a measly 6,Africans 30. And swallow this,overall 66 medals on the track minus relays,Euros could only muster all of 10.In fact 100 to 400 just 2 Euros both women made a final,not a single Euro male made it out of rounds. Euros should not bother themselves about competing with Africans,not gonna happen.It is the Asians Euros should be fretting about because the Asians are coming and are you about to blow by them
Actually for the medals that matter it looks like this:
800- Max Burgin-GOLD (gold falsely awarded to Korir but he is slow. Max didnt show up and is worlde leader)
1500- Whightman-GOLD
5000-Jakob-GOLD
3000SC- ElBakkali-GOLD (Bakkali is a European background guy)
Europeans won 100% of medals that matter
This is delusional.
You award 800 gold to Burgin, who didn’t show up. I’m not sure what your statement about Bakkali even means. He is born and raised in Africa. He is African.
Previous to Korir’s big meet dominance, Donovan Brazier won Worlds in the 800. He isn’t East African and most would not classify him strictly as European either. The horror!
If you completely ignore the 100, 200, 400, all hurdles and relays, as well as awarding gold medals to non-entrants and unilaterally reclassify Africans as Europeans, yep, you sure can establish European dominance.
But you’ll also end up on anti-psychotic medication to keep the extra voices away.
Unfortunately, there is an alternative explanation for the apparent decline in E African dominance, which is that just about everybody is now doing what it takes to succeed in the sport.
Now when the east Africans win it will be because of talent and hard work, not some pre-conceived genetic edge.. good for everyone!
Sprinting is a different story! (contradicting yourself)
How much Ghana or Nigeria middle and long distance runners? Find me a single name in the past?
This is not genetic but natural body morphology that help. It's a statistic affair "of how much you find" of eligible prototype.
Yah, might sound contradictory.. I was just indicating that my point relates solely to endurance and perceived east African genetic edge which was almost making many of us start to lose hope for a while. There is no doubt that many east Africans have a talent and culture for the sport, but this generation has at least shown us that who your parents are doesn't pre-determine your limits.
In sprinting, the level of dominance there of West African origin-people seems far, far greater than any east African dominance ever was, particularly for the men - this regardless of the country they live in. So I'm not sure a similar glass ceiling has been (or can be) broken.