Bit disappointed really, thought he would go for New York to tick off another Major.
I’m the #1 Kipchoge fanboy, and I have to agree, I’m extremely disappointed. I was in the midst of planning a trip to NY to watch him run😢. Even breaking the wr in Berlin would be of little consolation. He would literally need to break 2 to make this choice worthwhile. Of course if he does run and win Boston and NY in 2023 all will be forgotten, but right now, this is #badforthesport!!
No one remembers who won a random slow marathon. People remember world records.
I don't think that's even true. People remember great historic competitions. Is Letesnebet Gidey's 5000 WR a race that people will remember for the ages? This is a woman who has won 1 of her last like 15 5000s. Answer: Hell no.
People Wanjiru's Olympic race, his chicago win, Shorter's Olympic race, Geb vs Tergat in Sydney, Centro's Olympic gold win, etc.
But let's assume what you wrote is true for a minute. Even if we do that, Kipchoge's already got the damn WR in Berlin. So if he gets it again, what will it accomplish? Almost nothing. Particularly since it will still be way slower than 1:59:40.
The dude skipped out on a several majors to push his limits in artificial time trials and run 1:59:40. There is no need to duck the competition and run 2:01:33.
Weak sauce. I'm on vacation now but when I get back to office I'm going to work on designing a shirt that has a goat mouthing, "I'm scared of NYC."
Seems New York expects Eliud to just turn up to tick a box without any effort on their part. He made the right decision. Berlin wanted him more.
this is idiotic. How do you know WHAT was offered or not offered? The obvious take is that he wants to break his own record. If anything, money was secondary. He will not break any world record on a NYC or Boston course though he could have achieved something greater for himself and the sport. I have hopes that he's still got a lot more in him for at least another 2 years. Really do admire him a lot.
For diehard runners you're probably right but for the average runner and general population world records are what's memorable and breaking 2 hours officially would be a far larger accomplishment than winning a slow race. Even if he falls short of that breaking one's own world record is still a big deal, see Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps.
Bit disappointed really, thought he would go for New York to tick off another Major.
I'm HUGELY disappointed. Yesterday, I was thinking he was going to London and was still pissed about that. Berlin? What a joke.
Mark my words, he will lose Boston or New York the first time he ever runs them (if he ever tries it).
I was arguing with Jonathan Gault about this last night. This would be like a tennis player refusing to play Wimbledon or the French Open. We know Kipchoge is the best in the world on pancake flat course - rabbitted or not. But can he run a legit race on some hills?
How is he on clay or grass? And even that analogy may not be perfect as a marathon course really shouldn't be pancake flat. Think about it. The original marathon was not flat. Yet now the majority of the marathons are pancake flat. for all we know he's a clay court specialist or grass specialist but is lucky all the tournaments are on clay/grass.
PS. I changed the title of the thread to express my feelings. It was initially entitled, "Kipchoge to Berlin"
PPS. This is what a marathon course was initially like:
The course is the same, beginning in Marathon at 131 ft. above sea level, declining for the first 10 kilometers to 33 ft. before beginning a gradual and then steeper climb to a peak of 753ft. at the 32K mark before descending the last 10K to the finish at about 301ft. This is a tough course.
There’s absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn’t be equally competitive at NYC or Boston. After all, he’s the GOAT marathoner. If waits until he is 40 to make his NYC or Boston debut, you’re prediction of him losing could be correct.
Of course he's running Berlin. And what's really going to set the LRC into a frenzy is when London is back in April in 2023 and he picks that over Boston. Despite the random, wishful thinking soundbites, I don't think he will bother with Boston or New York until he is no longer the clear favorite to win London/Berlin each year. And by then it may be too late for him to take them back-to-back (if at all).
His legacy is speed and consistency. Berlin and London align with that.
No one remembers who won a random slow marathon. People remember world records.
I don't think that's even true. People remember great historic competitions. Is Letesnebet Gidey's 5000 WR a race that people will remember for the ages? This is a woman who has won 1 of her last like 15 5000s. Answer: Hell no.
People Wanjiru's Olympic race, his chicago win, Shorter's Olympic race, Geb vs Tergat in Sydney, Centro's Olympic gold win, etc.
But let's assume what you wrote is true for a minute. Even if we do that, Kipchoge's already got the damn WR in Berlin. So if he gets it again, what will it accomplish? Almost nothing. Particularly since it will still be way slower than 1:59:40.
The dude skipped out on a several majors to push his limits in artificial time trials and run 1:59:40. There is no need to duck the competition and run 2:01:33.
Weak sauce. I'm on vacation now but when I get back to office I'm going to work on designing a shirt that has a goat mouthing, "I'm scared of NYC."
agree. And surprised there are so many Kipchoge "Beliebers" on this site and not fans of the sport. criticism is spot on. He's still great; he's still a great man but let's be honest about what it means for the sport.
I don't think that's even true. People remember great historic competitions. Is Letesnebet Gidey's 5000 WR a race that people will remember for the ages? This is a woman who has won 1 of her last like 15 5000s. Answer: Hell no.
People Wanjiru's Olympic race, his chicago win, Shorter's Olympic race, Geb vs Tergat in Sydney, Centro's Olympic gold win, etc.
But let's assume what you wrote is true for a minute. Even if we do that, Kipchoge's already got the damn WR in Berlin. So if he gets it again, what will it accomplish? Almost nothing. Particularly since it will still be way slower than 1:59:40.
The dude skipped out on a several majors to push his limits in artificial time trials and run 1:59:40. There is no need to duck the competition and run 2:01:33.
Weak sauce. I'm on vacation now but when I get back to office I'm going to work on designing a shirt that has a goat mouthing, "I'm scared of NYC."
Honestly, it’s inexplicable that he would choose Berlin over NY at this stage of his career. If Kipchoge really wants to show the world what’s possible. and excite the general global populace, and move the needle for the sport and sport in general, winning NY and setting the course record is going to accomplish these goals FAR better than winning Berlin again and breaking a wr he already holds. He would literally need to run 1:58 in Berlin to equal the global impact of running 2:04 in NY. I think it’s a major miscalculation on his part if the goals he aspires to are as stated.
No one remembers who won a random slow marathon. People remember world records.
I don't think that's even true. People remember great historic competitions. Is Letesnebet Gidey's 5000 WR a race that people will remember for the ages? This is a woman who has won 1 of her last like 15 5000s. Answer: Hell no.
People Wanjiru's Olympic race, his chicago win, Shorter's Olympic race, Geb vs Tergat in Sydney, Centro's Olympic gold win, etc.
But let's assume what you wrote is true for a minute. Even if we do that, Kipchoge's already got the damn WR in Berlin. So if he gets it again, what will it accomplish? Almost nothing. Particularly since it will still be way slower than 1:59:40.
The dude skipped out on a several majors to push his limits in artificial time trials and run 1:59:40. There is no need to duck the competition and run 2:01:33.
Weak sauce. I'm on vacation now but when I get back to office I'm going to work on designing a shirt that has a goat mouthing, "I'm scared of NYC."
THIS.
He already did what needed to be done at Berlin. Win several times, break the world record. With London in the fall, it doesn’t look like he’ll even competition in Berlin capable of pushing him. So we get another rabitted world record attempt where he runs alone the last few miles. Also means he’ll probably run London in spring 2023….
But let's assume what you wrote is true for a minute. Even if we do that, Kipchoge's already got the damn WR in Berlin. So if he gets it again, what will it accomplish? Almost nothing. Particularly since it will still be way slower than 1:59:40.
The dude skipped out on a several majors to push his limits in artificial time trials and run 1:59:40. There is no need to duck the competition and run 2:01:33.
Rojo, do you (and people saying stuff like that he has to run 1:58 to make this a good choice) actually believe that what you are writing is a meaningful argument for claiming that Kipchoge made the wrong choice? No really, please pause for a moment.
First, I'm sure you know that we're talking about someone that, when he ran 2:01:39 4 years ago, had at least a few other kms on his legs. He could have gone sensibly faster, he just was in uncharted territory and knew he already had the WR by a mile. Look at him at the end of Breaking2 the year before: that's a tired Kipchoge. So, he wants to actually push. This is his concept of pushing your limits. Saying "no it's the wrong one, the real one is running a hilly marathon" is at least as arbitrary. The only point for NYC is its prestige, but for a guy like Kipchoge winning it once is enough, abd he has 2023 as a user already pointed out.
Second, you are right that there isn't an absolute scale for which any WR > every big race, but here we're not talking about the women 5000, this is the marathon. The only instance in which people "won't remember" the race if he sets a WR (which clearly he thinks he can) is, as you say, if he runs around 2:01:30. Still it would be a super exciting race to watch, since you wouldn't know until the end. Even if he runs 2:01:10 this would be an epic achievement, and if he runs sub 2:01 it would be another monumental performance.
Third, please realize that half of the comments here are extremely US-centered. An example: between the races you list as those "people remember" there is Centro's gold. I'm sorry, but this holds only in the US. I can give you 20 more iconic races in the last 10 years off the top of my head, it's just silly. I mean the US focus is totally fine, the forum is american, but Kipchoge is not. He doesn't reason like that.
Please explain what is "good for the sports" and give one example of an elite athlete who put "good for sports" ahead of his/her own goals and dreams.
Imagine you are 37 years old and you have two goals and you want to achieve both:
1. break WR again
2. win Boston / NYC
How would you do it?
Kipchoge needs to realize, it’s not about his goals and dreams, it’s ours that matter more….We, the marathon fans and hobby joggers of LRC want a NY victory more than a Berlin world record and we can’t fathom why he doesn’t agree with us.