It's the most straight forward path to upper class income + status. It's put forward as a good career if you enjoy learning about the human body and enjoy helping people. You are right that it comes with lots of downsides: long hours, lots of school debt, lengthy school.
And there are other paths such as ecom, sales, FAANG programmer and business ownership which if you are excellent and can get you there faster but come with different downsides.
Nice humble brag "I live in a great neighborhood" Ha. There comes a point when the great financial rewards do not outweigh the emotional disappointment that accompanies the inevitable failures involved with doing surgery on the general population
A guy down the street from me is an ortho. He threw shot put in college and did all his medical training in Chicago. He got a mid six figure signing bonus to join his current orthopedic group when he finished his residency. He was able to buy a $1 mil+ house with cash after working for 5 years as a surgeon. He rarely works more than 40 hours a week and gets 4 weeks paid vacation.
What does “mid six figure” mean? $500k?
I’m a urologist and I can tell you that if he told you that, he’s probably lying. Signing bonuses are generous but half a million is not a thing even in Chicagoland.
So you don't even get a real job until you're 34 at the earliest? I'm grateful, and baffled that anyone would sign up for this
I was planning to be retired by 30 can't imagine not even starting a career by then
What's your point I did college, grad school, and my career requires additional education for advancement. I am 40 and working on my 3rd Graduate Degree and shortly I will be required to get my PhD. If you want solid income you got to do the work and 34 is not old. My cardiologist says at 50 there are doctors in college learning new requirements for surgical advancement and the degree is required for it.
I wish that I’d been a doctor, maybe I’d have saved some lives that been lost. Maybe I’d have done some good in the world, ‘stead of burning every bridge I crossed.
From the sounds of things (this thread) being a doctor in the USA is quite lucrative and the training not too long. I am always amazed when I hear of American salaries...
In the UK it is the opposite - long training and mediocre pay until you become senior. Something like £38,000 ($46,000) after medical school and 2 years of foundation training... so about 7 years. Then it is another 3-8 years to specialise AFAIK. Hours are long, shifts are unsociable, workload is never ending. That's why a lot of British doctors become GPs and go part time to have a semblance of work life balance.
As others have described it's one of the surest paths to a solid upper middle class income anywhere in the U.S. The job security piece is underrated IMO. You will literally never be out of a job as an MD as long as you have not perpetrated criminal acts or egregious malpractice. Plus you can actually work part time and still make good money and benefits. None of that is true for corporate office drones like me and many others on here. My dad is a primary care doc and "retired" earlier this year. My mom is as well and retired a few years ago. My mom is happily done working but my dad is restless so he can just pick up urgent care shifts whenever he wants to earn some pocket money. Pretty sweet gig. Part time work is just NOT an option in my field unless I wanted to bust my hump selling my own consulting services or something like that.
It's a stressful job and I witnessed that throughout my childhood. My parents low-key discouraged me from pursuing medicine because of that. "Time is the most valuable thing" and other platitudes like that. Turns out that's really easy to say when you make a really nice income and will ALWAYS have a job. Now that I've lived a decade having to bounce around jobs as I've tried to put together a "career" I can honestly say I wish I'd just buckled down in college and gone to med school.
For the money and prestige. Becoming a doctor is the most sure fire way for someone who is smart and wants to work hard to earn a high income. Yes, there are people who make more money, but in general those all come with a much higher level of risk.
The money evens out, but with insurance remuneration, most physicians are almost required to be under salary at a hospital or clinical system. Many insurance companies only pay 10-40 cents on the dollar of what is billed. For example, if a burst appendix is removed in our hospital system and the patient has surgery and spends two days in the hospital, they might run up a bill of $15,000. Medicare will pay us around $1500 (depending on the contract), and the surgeon ~$550. To come in the middle of the night to do that surgery and then round on the patient in the hospital/write orders/notes/etc- $550 would not be worth it to me. That’s just me though. Remember, most physicians also take out >$300k in loans and work insane hours as students and residents without either not getting paid at all or being paid very little. The days of prestige are over with the advent of WebMD and the general public’s entitlement. I see it everyday, even in my own kids, unfortunately. Anyway, the point stands by Koko: why anyone would ever want to put themselves through that life is beyond me. At the end of it all, many are divorced and don’t know their own kids. Most of them (especially surgeons) have a drive like nothing I’ve ever seen.
For the money and prestige. Becoming a doctor is the most sure fire way for someone who is smart and wants to work hard to earn a high income. Yes, there are people who make more money, but in general those all come with a much higher level of risk.
Maybe it's a cultural/generational thing but is being a doctor that prestigious anymore?
Seems like all my friends want to make a bunch of money doing some tech mumbo jumpo or become a YouTube/TikTok creator
For the money and prestige. Becoming a doctor is the most sure fire way for someone who is smart and wants to work hard to earn a high income. Yes, there are people who make more money, but in general those all come with a much higher level of risk.
Maybe it's a cultural/generational thing but is being a doctor that prestigious anymore?
Seems like all my friends want to make a bunch of money doing some tech mumbo jumpo or become a YouTube/TikTok creator
When I introduce myself as Dr. Schadenfreude at parties, I’m instantly interesting. Drives my wife crazy…
-Get into med school (Unless you are super dedicated in undergrad, this can take 1-2 years after, and you better not have a bullS major. You'll be taking (and ideally getting straight A's) in organic chem, advanced calc, physics, etc in undergrad instead of drinking and partying, if you want to be a competitive applicant. Then get a good score on the MCAT unless you like going to medical school in the Caribbean.
- 4 years of med school, the 2nd two are far more clinical where you are basically shadowing the residents in hospital or clinical settings
-3+ years of residency, some specialities even have additional internships required before starting. You have to actually match into a good one and this basically determines your entire future. The top residency spots are extremely selective and only take the top tier med students. Specialities tend to be competitive / ranked based on pay and lifestyle. If you went the Caribbean route for med school because you were a failure, you won't get matched to jack s**t except maybe some podunk clinic in North Dakota if you're lucky. Often means moving regardless unless you get a residency in the same city or hospital as your med scool
-If you want to really stand out in your field and get a good fellowship, you do (by way of appointment) a Chief Residency year, which is an additional year of residency basically helping run the program
-From here you will ideally do a fellowship, another 3 years minimum. We're not at this stage yet so I can't comment as deeply on this phase, but it's similar to matching with a residency except even more like a job. Often means moving, again.
-You can also just start practicing as a hospitalist but this lacks the prestige and advanced positions that specialist roles open up
-After that, you can start as an attending or go and get additional certifications (3+ years) Often means moving, again.
So the entire process is something like 11-12 years of training and possibly several relocations after undergrad before you start making the big bucks.
My partner is a MD and we met her first year of med school. This was a few years ago. It's been a long ride and major sacrifice especially now in residency where you are working 60-80 PLUS hour weeks on the regular for what is basically garbage pay. Your vacations are very limited and days off are few and far in between, depending on where you are in the schedule. That said, there is a brighter future at the end of the tunnel.
What it means for me is lots of time to run and do whatever I want since I have a relatively low stress job in comparison. If she's working all day on a Sunday, that means I can go do a long run and screw off the rest of the day and recover. Her waking up at 5AM for work is the perfect time to get an early morning workout in before work, and getting home at 7-8 pm means I have time to sneak in a double most days after work without sacrificing any time together.
We know plenty of people in their early 30s who make 400-600k+ per year and you can walk on as a hospitalist in the midwest and make $500k+ EASY, not even doing procedures. In the Boston area where we are its actually a little less lucrative since you trade salary for prestige (Example, best hospital in the country, Mass General, pays like garbage (relative to the competition) and treats its employees like sh*t because it's prestigious as heck and you're lucky to be there at all)
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