Exact Marathon Distance?

i love how everyone takes miles and THEN converts it into kilometers.... shouldnt it be the other way around?

I never, ever heard of this SCPF before, but I think the answer should be as follows:

The course is measured and marked with the padded percentage built into and distributed evenly over the 26.21875 miles. SInce it will only be slightly over 1.5 metres extra per mile you would never notice.

But I still think this is bullshit. We sent a man to the moon after all.

Are you kidding me that there is a thread on how far a marathon is?

MarathonMind wrote:

...metres ...

We sent a man to the moon after all.

Since you spell meters the European/British way, I say you are not a real American.

That being the case, you have not sent anyone anywhere. WE sent a man to the moon. Several of them.

The prescribed distance for the full marathon is 42.195 kilometers, exactly. (Note that metric--NOT the silly U.S. system is used for the official distance.) If you want the exact distance in miles, the EXACT conversion for converting from miles to kilometers is 1.609344 KM = 1 mile (NOT 1.609!!!) This means that a 42.195 kilometer is EXACTLY 26.2187574564543 miles. A bit too long for a bumper sticker. If you prefer yards, that would be 26 miles 385.013123359578 yards, exactly. Personally, I prefer just to remember 42.195.

Paul

David Katz wrote:

The previous posting is correct- the only exact conversion is using 2.54cm = 1 inch exactly.

Doesn't the inch change as that stick in england gets shorter over the millenia?

It's included in every accurately measured course. It's a freaking road race, with undulations and multiple alternating turns, if you want it to be more exact then run on the goddamn track when it's perfectly calm for the duration and within the ideal temperature range!

The family of international road course measurers (and several of them on on this thread now) are a unique group of men and women. We are all the children of Ted Corbitt. For all of you youngsters out there, I beleive Ted is the man who invented the sport of road racing. An activity is just play unitl you apply standards and rules. Ted did just that when he researched and quietly applied standards of mesurement to an activity that was void of them.

His Committee was composed of engineers and Phd's. He would receive applications for certification from races around the country and farm them out to the committee. Two members of the committee had to approve the course before it was awarded certification.

Ted is a mild mannered man with a gift that few in the world have....he understood that there were people that knew more then him and he would ask them for their advice.

Dr. Ken Young and his wife Jennifer were the founders and administrators of the National Running Data Center (Tucson,AZ) that served as the record keepers for road racing in this country. Ken probably did more then any other person to help promote accurate course measurement with his newsletter and communications to race directors. He also started the Validation program where courses were re-measured after having records set.

The sport went through a transition period in the late 70's through the early 80's where the standards for a certified course had a series of steps for accepted accuracy. There was a progression of levels of accuracy over a period of years to allow race directors to bring thier courses up to standards as well as the education and training of qualified measurers. At first, courses where allowed to be .5% short, then .2% short, then .1% short, and finally all courses where to be at least the distance. The short course prevention faction was to insure that if a record was set that it wouldn't fail a validation by another measurer.

Measuring was pretty scattered in the US through the early 80's. There were a handfull of dedicated measurers each working independently, with most being trained by Ted via letters (he still has his Remington typewriter.) Some of these pioneers included: Bob Letson, Tom Knight, and Bob Baumel. All brillant (and I mean absolutely brillant) engineers and scientists.) They along with the Pete Riegel (another brillant, well organized engineer), helped to refine Ted's work with the devleopemnt of the RRTC (Road Racing Technical Council). Pete's tremendous orgaizational skills and his easy going personality helped to promote course measuring thoughout the world.

In my opinion, course measuring had a major breakthrough in the spirng of 1983 when approximately a dozen of the top US measurers got together in LA to measure the 1984 LA Olympic Marathon. It was the first time that we got together to share out ideas, our methods and our concerns. We found out that we were all doing the same thing, we were all the children of Ted.

Since that time we have gone out and taught many others how to measure so now there are hundreds of qualified measurers throughout the world.

We are a special breed. Some may call us nerds on bicycles. But we are 100% dedicated to our task and highly qualified to serve the sport we love as much as any athlete.

Thank you Ted, Ken, and Pete.

MarathonMind wrote:

But I still think this is bullshit. We sent a man to the moon after all.

NASA's budget is a bit larger than most race director's.

MarathonMind wrote:

I never, ever heard of this SCPF before, but I think the answer should be as follows:

The course is measured and marked with the padded percentage built into and distributed evenly over the 26.21875 miles. SInce it will only be slightly over 1.5 metres extra per mile you would never notice.

But I still think this is bullshit. We sent a man to the moon after all.

Friend, there is currently no 'perfect' system for measuring courses like there is a track. We use bikes w/pneumatic tires and have to deal w/road conditions, traffic, other obstacles like parked cars, weather (expanding tires as day warms up), etc. The SCPF is an innocuous amount that ensures remeasured/validated courses are long enough. Be happy for it as it helps guarantee you run at least the advertised distance.

What's the deal with tangents, the 100meter tape, and so forth?

I know at one time, there's been changes in predicting a "course of the perfect runner" through a turn.

It seems, marathons with turns [and hills] are longer than a flat out straight out and back....

Every measurer is asked to measure the SPR, the shortest possible route available to the runners. This means they ride tangents, 8" from uncurbed edges and 12" from curbs. Every course, regardless of its shape should be as long as advertised; thus, a 'curvy' course is NOT longer than a straight line course. The same standards are used in all measurements.

And, as we know, maybe 1% of all runners actually follow the SPR in races. Everybody else runs a 'long' course.

scotth wrote:

And, as we know, maybe 1% of all runners actually follow the SPR in races. Everybody else runs a 'long' course.

I've ridden more press trucks than I can remember, and it always amazes me how some of the world's best runners fail to cut the tangents effectively, if at all. It could be enough to cost someone a win or a record. A lot of them would benefit from measuring a course, or at least reading the measuerment manual.

The best way I've heard the SPR described was by Pete Riegel:

Imagine the course is lined the entire route by 6 foot high concrete walls. Then run a steel cable from the start to the finish. Anchor it on one end, then attach a tractor to the other and pull it taut. This is the SPR.

Good description by Pete. Just add that imaginary force field to keep it 30 cm from the wall.

On another note: A very good track runner can run less then the measured distance on a track. It's less likely for a road runner because the pavement usually isn't as good next to the curb.

Not that anyone really cares, but when "Jones" first made the Jones counter, he gave it to us, at my high school, to measure our 40 + road courses. He lives in a neighborhood above the school.

Now, we have courses measured to the hundredth of a mile that our XC and track teams run for practice.

And, I can't believe that anyone who runs doesn't know the real marathon distance!

That guy who said between 22-28 miles in living in the very early 1900's!

For some reason I tend to think that guy was a Columbian and his name was Alvaro Mejia. That name just happened to come to me for some reason, may not be correct.

26mi235 wrote:

Of course, I also remember Salazar cutting those corners (in NYC) (in his close race with the Mexican runner, name?).

Some of this is from memory and it fades a little when you have 55 years of stuff in there.

Let's try Rodolfo Gomez for the answer. Mejia is Colombian and won the '71 BAA Marathon.

It may have been the London Games (1904) where Dorando Pietri (ITA) was helped across the finish line. The problem was Not with Dorando, who gave it all he had in the tank, but the Royal Family who wanted the damned course moved so they could watch the commoners sweat.

#@!*^! Royalty!!!!

There was no standardized distance as I recall at the time, more or less any distance race around 20-22 miles was called a marathon per se. Maybe someone knows when 26.2 miles was made the standard?

Think about the Brit Royal Family the next time your legs scream at you over the last few miles of a marathon. Imagine how much better you'd feel if it were only say...21 miles.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule.

I believe that London, for instance, adds the extra 42m after the 26 mile sign so that all of the 26 individual mile signs are accurate. Other races add the extra 1m to each km, ie the km signs are actually 1001m apart.

Given that in 99% of the worlds races that the mile markers are only probably accurate to the nearest lamp post anyway, I don't really care. It is the distance from gun to tape that really matters