Yes, it was fun to watch. About three hours out from the finish, it started looking like she had a great chance for the overall win. She held pace while everyone else gradually and then radically fell off, and then she ran her last two laps very fast to cement the 100 mile record. It was very exciting.
Were you watching there in person? (or was this from the live feed coverage)? Assuming you were there...what was the course like? All Pavement path? Flat? I heard it was a 1.17 mile loop. How hot and sunny was it during the afternoon? Even as a Hoka athlete (I had a hard time telling from the pics), I couldn't see exactly what shoe model she was wearing...but it kind of looked like a Rincon 3? Sometimes runners will change shoe models during a 100-miler though. Just trying to put this record in perspective and hear all the details. Thanks!
Sorry. I went out for the day and just came back. No, I just watched the broadcast but you could see that there were a few moderate inclines and declines. It was totally exposed so the sun was a factor but it only got to about 67. She did wear the Rincon 3 the whole way, from my understanding. She made the point that they were not "cheater shoes" (which I know is just a term, I own some cheater shoes). There was a small amount of gravel and about 95 percent concrete.
You hold DNFs against one of the world’s best ultramarathoners, who shoots for records practically every time she enters a race?
tough critic. You must be a blast at parties.
Are those all her recent DNFs? If so that includes the three or so at Western States and other hard trail races, not some flat road or track effort. She's a phenomenally accomplished runner no doubt about it.
Probably pretty good because it's a USATF Champs and records were on the line. That being said Camille is a top notch athlete with very consistent results and a long pedigree. I'd 100% support her as a clean athlete...no doubt in my mind. It's not like she ran a sub 12 and came out of nowhere.
These kinds of events are very unlike in trail-mountain-ultras were there is basically no drug testing ( if it is it is some facade like the "QUARTZ program" which doesn't follow WADA protocol or rules and it is the Wild West) Athletes are more likely to dope big time on the mountain-trail events (and we know some have been already).
Hasn't Camille run USATF champs before? Here are her test results from USADA:
Not buying the "She's a nice lady and has been consistently good for a long time" story. The truth is she is rarely if ever tested.
Well, like I said there is hardly any testing in ultras. Generally for USATF events they at least have the threat of a real (WADA type) of drug test in their events though. In trail ultras it's generally a total joke (especially programs like "QUARTZ" under ITRA) and there isn't WADA type of protocol and reinforcement with potential penalties/infractions. Heck they didn't even wear gloves when they used to draw your blood at UTMB (this was several years ago).
But in my mind there is nothing suspicious about a 2:37 marathoner that can run a 12:41 for 100-miles. Sure, it's a really, really freaking good 100-miler and she took down some 2:25 types of guys (Alex Nichols). Not many people could do that. But 100-milers are like that sometimes and Camille has shown a pedigree to be really, really good at runnable road/flat uniform 100-milers and 12 hours-24 hours on tracks/loop courses. I mean she freaking won Comrades too.
Camille is right up there with some top ultra runners I know that are very against PED users and doping in the sport and are very outspoken about it. Again, like I said it is probably a lot more of a problem in mountain running and mountain-trail-ultra races (which in Europe attracts more of the cycling and skimo culture...which is not all clean for sure). We know people in the top 10 at UTMB have been popped already for EPO (from a race day test mind you!), while the preferred stuff would probably be HGH/steroids and Testosterone etc. Doping in trail-ultra running would require no sophistication. This isn't like pro road/track running or cycling. That being said what you are insinuating is not well thought out.
If Zach Bitter (2:30 marathoner or so?) runs a 11:19 hour 100-miler nobody bats an eye (I'd bet he is 100% clean too btw), but if Camille runs 12:41 you're suspicious? That is ridiculous! Women convert better in ultra endurance events relative to their road marathon (and 5k/10km PRs for that matter). Test more of the mountain-ultra runners if you want to catch real dopers.
They aren't really teammates because that's not really a team, they just have a common employer and never work together. Why not dub them family while we're misusing terminology? It's like calling Jenny Simpson, Sydney McLaughlin, and Emma Coburn teammates. They're independent freelance contractors with the same company.
Not my terminology.
Sage Canaday, LR 02/19/2022 "Gotta give credit where credit is due. Hoka teammate Camiile Herron (now a masters runner), just ran 12;41:11.......
With the notion of the supposedly "tightknit ultra-runner community", and Sage's use of the word teammate, it's not an unreasonable thing to be curious about..... why didn't he just ask her? Not that tightknit or something.
To the people here accusing Camille of using PED. The idea that improving max VO2 or your body’s ability to move oxygen around would improve performance in a 100 mile race is silly. Being able to recover more quickly from hard workouts would also not really make that much difference either. Camille is just on a different level than the rest of us in terms of mental toughness. She could probably make it through Hell Week at SEAL BUDS and Ranger School at the age of 40. She gets injured frequently but that happens when you push limits frequently
Not buying the "She's a nice lady and has been consistently good for a long time" story. The truth is she is rarely if ever tested.
Well, like I said there is hardly any testing in ultras. Generally for USATF events they at least have the threat of a real (WADA type) of drug test in their events though. In trail ultras it's generally a total joke (especially programs like "QUARTZ" under ITRA) and there isn't WADA type of protocol and reinforcement with potential penalties/infractions. Heck they didn't even wear gloves when they used to draw your blood at UTMB (this was several years ago).
But in my mind there is nothing suspicious about a 2:37 marathoner that can run a 12:41 for 100-miles. Sure, it's a really, really freaking good 100-miler and she took down some 2:25 types of guys (Alex Nichols). Not many people could do that. But 100-milers are like that sometimes and Camille has shown a pedigree to be really, really good at runnable road/flat uniform 100-milers and 12 hours-24 hours on tracks/loop courses. I mean she freaking won Comrades too.
Camille is right up there with some top ultra runners I know that are very against PED users and doping in the sport and are very outspoken about it. Again, like I said it is probably a lot more of a problem in mountain running and mountain-trail-ultra races (which in Europe attracts more of the cycling and skimo culture...which is not all clean for sure). We know people in the top 10 at UTMB have been popped already for EPO (from a race day test mind you!), while the preferred stuff would probably be HGH/steroids and Testosterone etc. Doping in trail-ultra running would require no sophistication. This isn't like pro road/track running or cycling. That being said what you are insinuating is not well thought out.
If Zach Bitter (2:30 marathoner or so?) runs a 11:19 hour 100-miler nobody bats an eye (I'd bet he is 100% clean too btw), but if Camille runs 12:41 you're suspicious? That is ridiculous! Women convert better in ultra endurance events relative to their road marathon (and 5k/10km PRs for that matter). Test more of the mountain-ultra runners if you want to catch real dopers.
I don't really care either way if she's clean or dirty. My point was that since the day we realized that doping was a thing, our sport has at least pretended to be doing something about it. USATF and USADA have an obligation to the athletes and fans to provide a fair competition. With no testing at these events, all of the performances fall under the eye of suspicion. How many championships has this woman won? How many records has she broken? How many tests has she taken? See my point? The standard to which these "records" are ratified is lower than other USATF/WA standards. She's a paid professional and wins prize money. There is something in it to cheat if necessary. The same point would apply to Zach. These people probably are clean, but there's no way to know it. They aren't tested. I blame the governing bodies, not the athletes.
Camille might eat too much junk food but I don't think she is doping.
There are two things here at play. 1. Road ultrarunning was never a thing in the US.
2. Camille Herron is the most gifted road ultrarunner in the US since Ann Trason.
And a third would be: Ann Trason won WS100 14 times. Camille has now just one mid packer finish.
Trason never had competition at WS. All she had to do to win was show up. But her Comrades wins are legit and still among the top performances.
Trason was just as good on trails as on the road. Camille is more of a road specialist. It's too bad UTMB wasn't around when Trason was in her prime.
You can only compete against people who show up on race day.
Ann Trason's WS times are very good, even compared to recent times. Would she won as often today, probably not but she showed up at a time when not many did this kind of stuff. She also had the WR at 100k on roads , 24 hours and 2 Comrades wins.
If you compare Camille with Ann it's not even close.
This comment smacks of a misunderstanding of metabolic physiology for ultra endurance.
You do know that your body can work active recovery processes, and can rehabilitate itself while mobile, right? "VO2 max" does not explicitly and exclusively affect work domains from 4 minutes to 30 minutes. Oxygen transport and loading, and its efficiency, is relevant at every aerobic distance, and in every aerobic event. It's a measurement of the "maximal VO2 point" hence the "max." Does this mean to you that you're just not training the sub-maximum Vo2 capacity when you're doing 1k repeats? asinine
I live in Vegas and run on that loop frequently. All paved like a typical bike path and some slight rolling hills that probably suck after 30 or 40 miles. Great weather for it…fairly cool and not much wind.
I seem to remember reading an article recently that laid out how women gain advantages in ultra distances. Said differently, the inherent advantages of male athletes dissipate the longer the distance.
I seem to remember reading an article recently that laid out how women gain advantages in ultra distances. Said differently, the inherent advantages of male athletes dissipate the longer the distance.
Yes there are articles about that. But there is no evidence that this is actually true.
Generally speaking what is true that women pace themselves more realistically to their abilities. That make them maybe more successful (compared to their abilities)
I seem to remember reading an article recently that laid out how women gain advantages in ultra distances. Said differently, the inherent advantages of male athletes dissipate the longer the distance.
That article is BS, ongoing propaganda since the '80s as women started doing longer events and of course broke records more often.: ultra M/W records show otherwise. Women sprinters have better comparative marks against men than in marathons and ultras.
A better comparitor against Ann Treason is Courtney Dauwalter.
I suspect that a slightly rolling course would be better for a 100 due to varying the impact on legs. Just a guess since I have not gone over 50K.
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