new era wrote:
#1 Beamish has jumped to another level. Look for him to compete with Katir this year. Wouldn't be surprised is he runs a 7:28 this year.
#2 Hocker is no way worried about any of this. Come summer no one is keeping up with his kick. Watch as Timmy is looking at Hockers rear end in the 1500 final in Eugene.
Haha,the famous kick we saw in the Olympics, if only he was closer at the bell 😅
Is his finishing speed on par with Centro, Manzano or Willis in their primes? I would say he absolutely does.
Those three guys have closed hard enough to win many global 1500 medals. Not bad company. But not shocked to see the letsrun folks tearing him down, it’s what these people do best.
say it again. wrote:
new era wrote:
#1 Beamish has jumped to another level. Look for him to compete with Katir this year. Wouldn't be surprised is he runs a 7:28 this year.
#2 Hocker is no way worried about any of this. Come summer no one is keeping up with his kick. Watch as Timmy is looking at Hockers rear end in the 1500 final in Eugene.
Haha,the famous kick we saw in the Olympics, if only he was closer at the bell 😅
Lol. Hocker is a teenager no more. 1 year later and a whole new runner. Unfortunately for Tim, Hocker will be a 3:28 runner while Tim is getting slower and wont run under 3:29. Tim will likely move up to the 5000 and challenge the slowpokes there.
new era wrote:
say it again. wrote:
Haha,the famous kick we saw in the Olympics, if only he was closer at the bell 😅
Lol. Hocker is a teenager no more. 1 year later and a whole new runner. Unfortunately for Tim, Hocker will be a 3:28 runner while Tim is getting slower and wont run under 3:29. Tim will likely move up to the 5000 and challenge the slowpokes there.
He might be young,but isn't he only a few months younger than Jacob?
Guess Jacob is the only one to threaten Hocker this year.
OozmaKappa is the most annoying troll on LetsRun. Some of the takes in this thread are downright bad - Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in the world. I don't expect him to dominate against a very deep, talented field in January in his first race since the Olympic 1500m final.
Where are the threads about Josh Kerr's finishing speed being overrated after he was dusted by Ollie Hoare in the Wannamaker Mile? This place is honestly exhausting to read at times.
Flagpole wrote:
Last year in the NCAA indoor mile, Hocker ran the last 200 in 25 seconds for a 3:53. Come on now...he has world elite speed. Why do people always want to tear down others, especially RUNNERS on a running message board?
Don't often agree with Flagpole on Hocker but here I do. Wasn't this his first proper race since the Olympics? And in the 3k no less? His kick and its ability to allow him to win on the world stage is certainly suspect but I think people are reading way too much into it. It's like trying to race a marathon after like 6 weeks of training and wondering why you fell apart at the end.
nooooooo wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Last year in the NCAA indoor mile, Hocker ran the last 200 in 25 seconds for a 3:53. Come on now...he has world elite speed. Why do people always want to tear down others, especially RUNNERS on a running message board?
I'm not tearing Hocker down - I was just putting his very fast finishes into context. Hocker was a 3:50 miler back then, so naturally he can close a 3:53 race very quickly ...
That being said, I remember American running fans overrating Hocker's finishing ability (saying he could outkick Jakob, Tim etc...) when they saw him kicking hard to win domestic 3:35 races, which simply doesn't translate to world class racing.
Hocker definitely has a great finish, but those crazy finishes we all saw last summer were more due to the fact that he was racing slower 1500m races relative to his level, so he had a lot left in the tank. As we saw in Tokyo, he doesn't have the same kick in faster races, which is perfectly normal. It just seems like people on this board believe that Hocker can close the last 100m of a 1500m in 12s no matter what!
He's 20. The kicks you are referring to were when he was 19. Jakob is a crazy example to compare to, and even HIS kick isn't stellar. He does well because he can go harder and longer than others.
OozmaKappa wrote:
First of all, I told you so. Second of all, I told you so. Cole Hocker is what I like to call the illusion of speed. He walks through weak fields in the G League of running (NCAA) with bad pacing and fast 100m splits in slow races, which makes his kick look more impressive then it actually is. All this talk about how hes the best finisher in middle distance running is ridiculous. If you throw him in a fast race with halfway decent runners, that kick of his is going to come up short.
Case in point, low and behold, Millrose demonstrated just that. Except it wasnt even a fast race and Beamish isnt even that great of a runner. Yet he outkicked the guy who has been crowned by delusional americans as the best kicker. Say it with me, Cole Hocker's kick is overrated.
And if his kick wasnt enough in a +7:40 3000m race, imagine how lackluster it would be in a sub 7:30 race.
What’s your PB in the 1500, mile, 3k or 5k? You’re pretty ballsy for a keyboard warrior who probably has cookie crumbs on his stomach.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Lollys Master wrote:
OozmaKabba is a G-League troll.
Is "G League" and "Yakob" part of the Letsrun jargon now thanks to me?
You’re the Kyle Rittenhouse of this board. If you were confronted personally you’d cry and soil yourself. Snowflake.
Teare held Hocker off in his opener last winter and opener last spring before he raced himself into killer shape.
This seems like par for the course.
Btw: he is also not a 7:39 guy. This was in no way an optimized race. He is a 7:35/7:36 guy who kicked hard to a 7:39
Lollys Master wrote:
OozmaKabba is a G-League troll.
Overrated G-leaguer. He's such a complete disaster The worst and most inaccurate post of any posted on Let's Run. , Osama. I mean who calls their kids that these days? No wonder he hates successful American runners. He should be ashamed for the fake news and fake reviews. What a total disgrace. Many posters are much better than Osama bin dummy. You should feel ashamed.
Based on their carbon copy bad takes, posting style, and the similar defensive tone of their comebacks, I suspect that Oozma Kappa is Jamin.
Flagpole wrote:
nooooooo wrote:
I'm not tearing Hocker down - I was just putting his very fast finishes into context. Hocker was a 3:50 miler back then, so naturally he can close a 3:53 race very quickly ...
That being said, I remember American running fans overrating Hocker's finishing ability (saying he could outkick Jakob, Tim etc...) when they saw him kicking hard to win domestic 3:35 races, which simply doesn't translate to world class racing.
Hocker definitely has a great finish, but those crazy finishes we all saw last summer were more due to the fact that he was racing slower 1500m races relative to his level, so he had a lot left in the tank. As we saw in Tokyo, he doesn't have the same kick in faster races, which is perfectly normal. It just seems like people on this board believe that Hocker can close the last 100m of a 1500m in 12s no matter what!
He's 20. The kicks you are referring to were when he was 19. Jakob is a crazy example to compare to, and even HIS kick isn't stellar. He does well because he can go harder and longer than others.
You're wrong about Jakob's kick, it is stellar. He and Kerr were the fastest through the last 400, 300, 200, and 100, and they were doing that to run 3:28 and 3:29. They both have amazing closing speed even off a hard pace. Hocker also closed well, not going to deny that, but he needs to find two seconds AND retain the closing speed. The current 1500m game is damn hard
High hopes wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
He's 20. The kicks you are referring to were when he was 19. Jakob is a crazy example to compare to, and even HIS kick isn't stellar. He does well because he can go harder and longer than others.
You're wrong about Jakob's kick, it is stellar. He and Kerr were the fastest through the last 400, 300, 200, and 100, and they were doing that to run 3:28 and 3:29. They both have amazing closing speed even off a hard pace. Hocker also closed well, not going to deny that, but he needs to find two seconds AND retain the closing speed. The current 1500m game is damn hard
J. Ingebrigtsen's kick is NOT stellar. J. Ingebrigtsen has a survival of the fittest kick. No way in Olympic or World Champion semi-final or final would J. Ingebrigtsen have the guts to rest up and split 1200m in 2:57 to 3:03 range. It takes confidence to allow the pace to be slow through 1200m. Having to take the lead and push the pace from 400m in 1500m race is a sign of fear.
say it again. wrote:
new era wrote:
Lol. Hocker is a teenager no more. 1 year later and a whole new runner. Unfortunately for Tim, Hocker will be a 3:28 runner while Tim is getting slower and wont run under 3:29. Tim will likely move up to the 5000 and challenge the slowpokes there.
He might be young,but isn't he only a few months younger than Jacob?
He is but I still think Hocker is a greater talent. Jakob and his brothers are fine-tuned machines at this point and have been training seriously since they were children. Hocker really hasn't burst on to the scene until his senior year of high school, and even then it's not like anyone would have predicted he would be in the olympic finals his sophomore year of college. That's why I think Hocker probably has a way higher ceiling, definitely higher than Kerr or Hoare or Mcsweyn.
J. Ingebrigtsen's kick is survival of the ... wrote:
High hopes wrote:
You're wrong about Jakob's kick, it is stellar. He and Kerr were the fastest through the last 400, 300, 200, and 100, and they were doing that to run 3:28 and 3:29. They both have amazing closing speed even off a hard pace. Hocker also closed well, not going to deny that, but he needs to find two seconds AND retain the closing speed. The current 1500m game is damn hard
J. Ingebrigtsen's kick is NOT stellar. J. Ingebrigtsen has a survival of the fittest kick. No way in Olympic or World Champion semi-final or final would J. Ingebrigtsen have the guts to rest up and split 1200m in 2:57 to 3:03 range. It takes confidence to allow the pace to be slow through 1200m. Having to take the lead and push the pace from 400m in 1500m race is a sign of fear.
Jakob 100% has a better kick than Hocker. I guarantee you Jakob could close a 3:53 race in 25s... The difference is, Jakob can also kick off a fast pace. Same thing with Cheruyiot. That’s why they’re the best 1500 runners in the world.
Btw, no one cares about « showing confidence » by jogging for 3 laps … It’s a 1500m, not a 300m, so it should be raced as such. The top runners understand this, and that’s why the last two OG/WCG races have been sub 3:30, and the women’s races equally as fast.
Am I saying it correctly?
"Cole Hocker's kick is overrated."
His kick probably is fine. His current fitness may be lacking slightly. Obviously he is saving it for Eugene.
J. Ingebrigtsen's kick is survival of the ... wrote:
High hopes wrote:
You're wrong about Jakob's kick, it is stellar. He and Kerr were the fastest through the last 400, 300, 200, and 100, and they were doing that to run 3:28 and 3:29. They both have amazing closing speed even off a hard pace. Hocker also closed well, not going to deny that, but he needs to find two seconds AND retain the closing speed. The current 1500m game is damn hard
J. Ingebrigtsen's kick is NOT stellar. J. Ingebrigtsen has a survival of the fittest kick. No way in Olympic or World Champion semi-final or final would J. Ingebrigtsen have the guts to rest up and split 1200m in 2:57 to 3:03 range. It takes confidence to allow the pace to be slow through 1200m. Having to take the lead and push the pace from 400m in 1500m race is a sign of fear.
It's time to stop celebrating slow 1500m races.