Bodyweight x 10 is a good goal to shoot for.
For 1 rep....I'm pretty close to 2x.
I can back squat to good depth 340 x 3 @ 185lb bw at 43 yrs old. But I'm long past being a competitive runner.
The squat is a pretty technical lift Most of you probably have the leg strength to do bw x 10 but might not have the stability in the technique and once it gets heavier the drop off is likely severe
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
Bodyweight x 10 is a good goal to shoot for.
For 1 rep....I'm pretty close to 2x.
I can back squat to good depth 340 x 3 @ 185lb bw at 43 yrs old. But I'm long past being a competitive runner.
The squat is a pretty technical lift Most of you probably have the leg strength to do bw x 10 but might not have the stability in the technique and once it gets heavier the drop off is likely severe
Alan
Good advice.
I've stopped doing any lifts that put a lot of compression on my spine or that put my ligaments under stress at extreme weights or ranges of motion. I don't do back squats.
Instead, I do the leg press machine and a variety of low-weight squats... goblet squats, Bulgarian squats, and pistol squats.
I weight 139 lbs and I just turned 74. Last week, I did 8x 528 lbs on the leg press and 5x pistol squats on each leg. I'd guess that I could do 3-5x 175-185 pounds right now on a trap bar squat, but I don't have access to a trap bar.
Stability is critical. I use a band around both knees to pull them in on heavy leg presses.
I don't do unassisted pistol squats for max reps. Instead, I'll do two sets of 8x using a bar for balance. Then I'll do one unassisted set of 5x. I've only been doing pistol squats for a couple of months and I'm wobbly over 5 reps so I stop there.
Except for sprinters, we don't need to be doing extreme knee range of motion weight lifting or extreme back stress lifts. The benefit/risk ratio isn't there.
Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
jacksquat wrote:
I was reading casually about strength (see article below) and realized that I’ve been living under a rock strengthwise. Articles says that athletes like runners or plyo doers should be able to squat 1.5-2.5 times their body weight. I can barely squat 0.75 times my body weight. 😥Can most of you runners squat 1.5x?
http://www.reachutmost.com/2019/05/19/youre-not-strong-not-even-close/I highly recommend the stronglifts 5x5 program.
https://stronglifts.com/5x5/275 x 5 at 172 lbs, below parallel
1 rep max 380 (2.2x body weight)
I also use StrongLifts 5x5 at this time of year, I don’t know the 1RM but 5x5 my PR is 100kg so I’m guessing 120kg is possible for me.
I'm 5-7, 130. I have never tried 195, but I can do five reps of 185. So I can probably do one rep of 195. I can also do five reps of pistol squat with a 10 lbs medicine ball.
First of all, to the OP, if you drag 10 average Joes off the street, weight say 200lbs for the sake of discussion, NO, PROBABLY NOT ONE OF THEM WILL SQUAT 300-500 (1.5x-2.5x bodyweight). If one could, buy yourself a lotto ticket that day.
Even fairly strong people who have the potential to easily reach this performance simply cannot, because they are unpracticed and lack the coordination.
To lift heavy (free weights), you need to be both strong AND coordinate the movement. As a 400-800 runner in the old days when everyone used weight machines, I could "squat" ridiculous amounts, usually the max in any basic gym. But I couldn't free squat my own weight on a bar the first time out. I practiced for weeks to get there (and I mean "practiced" not trained, because it was a matter of getting the motion and stability, not getting "stronger" per se).
Now I do 3x12 with BW in three workouts of my weekly routine. I could probably go heavier if I cared, of course, but the biggest issue for my Turkey Trot goals is VO2 max, not quad and glute strength - ha.
it's just practice wrote:
First of all, to the OP, if you drag 10 average Joes off the street, weight say 200lbs for the sake of discussion, NO, PROBABLY NOT ONE OF THEM WILL SQUAT 300-500 (1.5x-2.5x bodyweight). If one could, buy yourself a lotto ticket that day.
Even fairly strong people who have the potential to easily reach this performance simply cannot, because they are unpracticed and lack the coordination.
To lift heavy (free weights), you need to be both strong AND coordinate the movement. As a 400-800 runner in the old days when everyone used weight machines, I could "squat" ridiculous amounts, usually the max in any basic gym. But I couldn't free squat my own weight on a bar the first time out. I practiced for weeks to get there (and I mean "practiced" not trained, because it was a matter of getting the motion and stability, not getting "stronger" per se).
Now I do 3x12 with BW in three workouts of my weekly routine. I could probably go heavier if I cared, of course, but the biggest issue for my Turkey Trot goals is VO2 max, not quad and glute strength - ha.
O.P. wasn't asking about random gals & guys walking into Target or Walmart. O.P. asked about squatting and runners and free weight squatting ability. Do you think the average college runner is able to squat 1 1/2 times their body weight? I really would like to know how well All-American XC runners squat.
I weigh 135-140 lbs and I routinely do something like 3-4 sets of 5-7 squats @ 185. 4:20 mile / 15:30 5k fitness currently.
I haven't tried a max weight but I think I could or would at least be close to doing 225 or more. Not x2 my weight but at least 1.5x. Runners should probably be doing quarter squats anyway.
Two things wrong with this article.
First, squats are a bit hard to define and compare. How many of those numbers were powerlifting-legal "thighs parallel"? Sprinters and well-coached runners-in-the-gym may well be doing quarter squats to stress the glutes and minimize the risk to the back. Recreational lifters may be squatting shallow because they just like the big numbers. I am pretty sure Jenny Meadows' 3xBW squat is not all the way down.
Secondly, if runners are going to pick one lift as their measure, they should DEADLIFT. Reasons:
- it's 100% repeatable and does not allow any cheating.
- back squats use (and tire) your back muscles. Running with a tired back sucks, way worse than running with tired legs, and can lead to other injuries.
- there is a LONG heritage of strength coaches since Percy Cerutty say 2x bodweight is a good target - much below this, you have something to gain, and much above this, leg strength is not the limiting factor on your running.
- posterior chain will do more for your running mechanics and downforce, and interfere less with your training. The deadlift is training your running and jumping muscle patterns.
- safer. Just drop the bar. More ways to get in trouble with a bar on your back.
If you like squatting, do power cleans, light front squats and push presses. Well rounded workout with one bar from the floor, keeps the spine nice and vertical, encourages athleticism.
This is pretty funny to think about...what does Connor Mantz weigh, something like 115? Squatting 185 should be easy, but I find it hard to picture some of these really thin guys with the strength to even put plates on the bar.
Runningart2004 wrote:
https://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards
This one is adjusted for age.
https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/jacksquat wrote:
I was reading casually about strength (see article below) and realized that I’ve been living under a rock strengthwise. Articles says that athletes like runners or plyo doers should be able to squat 1.5-2.5 times their body weight. I can barely squat 0.75 times my body weight. 😥Can most of you runners squat 1.5x?
I cannot.
but I do have some weights at home that I swing around every now and then. I have a 45lb plate on my floor and I pick it up and do stuff with it a few minutes a day. What I do is kind of like yoga but with relatively light weights. I like to focus on strength with flexibility in mind.
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
https://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandardsThis one is adjusted for age.
https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/
It's not a question of "should you be able to squat..." as the chart points out. You cant imply that someone is weak unless they're training without results. The novice lifter unable to lift his bodyweight can expect results if not then they are obviously weak. I've done nothing but goblet squats the last 15 years and I don't try to lift more than 80 pounds. . I wouldn't say my legs are weak because I can't squat 220 (proficient for me). But if I were squatting two days a weak that would be my goal.
Leave your ego at the door and just try to be fit and healthy. My goal is to be like fisky
I do 185 lbs for 4x10 reps as a 145 lbs 5k runner .. I'm guessing I could do 220 for some smaller reps.
jacksquat wrote:
Thanks, that stronglifts plan gives me a plan!
+1 for StrongLifts.
I do a 3 month training cycle once or twice a year. My first time, I started by squatting 85 lbs (I weigh 145 lbs.)
I usually get up to 235 or so and then start another training cycle (HST, in order to look hot for summer.)
Side note: I had a friend start it, he weighs 150 and could only squat 125 a few months ago. He just did 185 yesterday on the program. Try it out. But GOOD FORM is essential.
Like Really Bro wrote:
I weigh 135-140 lbs and I routinely do something like 3-4 sets of 5-7 squats @ 185. 4:20 mile / 15:30 5k fitness currently.
I haven't tried a max weight but I think I could or would at least be close to doing 225 or more. Not x2 my weight but at least 1.5x. Runners should probably be doing quarter squats anyway.
You could probably get close to 250 for a 1 rep max with what ur listing.
ehehh wrote:
This is pretty funny to think about...what does Connor Mantz weigh, something like 115? Squatting 185 should be easy, but I find it hard to picture some of these really thin guys with the strength to even put plates on the bar.
I don't know if C. Mantz is weight training with free weights, either way, I believe (3/4 to 7/8) of all All-American males from this weekend are capable of free weight squatting with good form thighs parallel to the ground 150% of body weight with only one month of training. Squatting well takes coordinate. Running well does also. Some college XC coaches may not believe the injury risk is worth it for 6K to 10K XC. I understand if some coaches believe that. That said, if there are XC runners who can't free weight squat 75% their weight, weight training can help, even 6K to 10K.
jacksquat wrote:
I was reading casually about strength (see article below) and realized that I’ve been living under a rock strengthwise. Articles says that athletes like runners or plyo doers should be able to squat 1.5-2.5 times their body weight. I can barely squat 0.75 times my body weight. 😥Can most of you runners squat 1.5x?
http://www.reachutmost.com/2019/05/19/youre-not-strong-not-even-close/
Virtually no one who isn't working out regularly is squatting 1.5-2.5 their body weight in the squat. If your muscles don't have a reason to be strong they won't be strong.
Running doesn't give you a big squat any more than swimming would give you a huge bench press.
I'd wager if you spent 6 months squatting heavy regularly you'd easily get into the 1.5-2.5 range.
eurodonkey wrote:
Two things wrong with this article.
First, squats are a bit hard to define and compare. How many of those numbers were powerlifting-legal "thighs parallel"? Sprinters and well-coached runners-in-the-gym may well be doing quarter squats to stress the glutes and minimize the risk to the back. Recreational lifters may be squatting shallow because they just like the big numbers. I am pretty sure Jenny Meadows' 3xBW squat is not all the way down.
Yeah. I have arthritis in the hips and going through the full range of motion can cause things to flare up. But doing 3/4 squats is fine, and a whole lot better than doing nothing.