steeple morr wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Rather than for money or recognition, shouldn't runners choose the distance they enjoy?
You only enjoy it because you can’t run the 100m. Again, if in HS, you were running 10.4, you think you would’ve still opted to run 3 hour marathons?
Huh? I thought the choice was 1:40 for 800 or 2:00 for a marathon. Sure, I'll take the 10.4 over the 3:00 marathon.
In Europe, a world class 800 runner, will do very well $$$. I remember Coe and Ovett and they were huge.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
steeple morr wrote:
I don’t know what it is about LetsRun, but people consistently make the worst analogies.
Running an 800 is not akin to playing baseball. In fact, I’d bet more there have been more 800s raced than marathons raced by members of this board.
Also, a 1:39 800m runner could possibly run well at the 400 or the 1500.
I used the MLB analogy as an exaggeration. The 800 and Marathon are almost night and day. The 800 would mean no XC in HS or college and no road racing. As a distance runner, I would take the marathon all day long. For a guy with 46 400 speed, choosing the 800 would be a no-brainer.
I probably would prefer sub-2 hour Marathon if I didn't actually have to train for it or race the Marathon. All record books updated to reflect sub-2 hour Marathon status. Otherwise, sub-1:40 800m. If this is a negotiation, I would also want 3 800m Olympic gold medals and 7 gold W.C. medals, 800m.
In regard to 800m runners in U.S. and hs XC, unless a 800m runner is a star athlete in another fall sport, 800m runners in U.S. should be on hs XC team. College XC: Fairly risky for 800m runners to light a cigar, place their boots on head XC coach's desk and demand a XC waiver. Better be 800m conference champ and at least top three in the nation if an 800m runner demands a college XC waiver. Emmanuel Korir participated in college XC.
Suffer for 1:59:59 or suffer for 1:39.99? You tell me?
Sub 2 ‘THON!
Much more impressive than a sub 1:40 800.
The 800m easily. You can repeat that performance more often and feel that High from destroying your competition over and over again and if you’re a true competitor that’s why you do it to win! More championships to be won and more exhilarating performances to look back on. This is barring that you’re saying we would be able to accomplish either feat every time we attempt It. If not then yes I would rather the marathon. The 800 is such a fun race to run that it would be awesome to be able to run 1:40 even tho I’m sure it would hurt like hell.
History will tell us that rudisha is and will be much more of an anomaly than kipchoge.
ja rule wrote:
History will tell us that rudisha is and will be much more of an anomaly than kipchoge.
I am not sure about that. Rudisha was barely better than Kipketer.
Peder wrote:
1:40 or 2:00. Which do you choose?
I rilly can’t decide, so Ima pick both.
Rudisha is 6’3” and broad shouldered, probably weighed 160’s at his peak, and Kipchoge is 5’6” and like 115 pounds. I think I’ll opt to be the 800 goat.
I’d rather break my leg than listen to the 100 reasons why I broke 1:40 or 2:00… nobodies calling foul that ran on dirt tracks but everyone’s calling foul on super spikes and shoes…. Good lord, end it already…. lol
Peder wrote:
ja rule wrote:
History will tell us that rudisha is and will be much more of an anomaly than kipchoge.
I am not sure about that. Rudisha was barely better than Kipketer.
I agree with ja rule. I bet that in 15 years, Rudisha’s 1:40.91 will still be one of the best 2-3 performances, if not the WR, while Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 will not be top-3.
As for the prompt, for me it all comes down to whether or not I have range to run 3:28.x or sub-44, or I’m such a specialist that I can “only” run 45 & 3:33.
Kipchoge has robbed the first legit sub-2 marathoner (should there ever be one) in a small way, since a story that might make some headlines among the general population will be met with “Didn’t that other guy already do that?”
John Wesley Harding wrote:
I agree with ja rule. I bet that in 15 years, Rudisha’s 1:40.91 will still be one of the best 2-3 performances, if not the WR, while Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 will not be top-3.
Excuse me, I meant top 2-3 performers, not performances.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
I agree with ja rule. I bet that in 15 years, Rudisha’s 1:40.91 will still be one of the best 2-3 performances, if not the WR, while Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 will not be top-3.
Excuse me, I meant top 2-3 performers, not performances.
I think you are wrong in the sense that Kipketer ran 1:41.11 in 1997, 24 years ago. You must assume that Kipketer was the freak of all freaks at middle distance running if you think that 39 years after Kipketer ran 1:41.11 he is likely to be a top 5 performer, which is implicit in your post. What you say about Kipchoge is likely true though.
Peder wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
Excuse me, I meant top 2-3 performers, not performances.
I think you are wrong in the sense that Kipketer ran 1:41.11 in 1997, 24 years ago. You must assume that Kipketer was the freak of all freaks at middle distance running if you think that 39 years after Kipketer ran 1:41.11 he is likely to be a top 5 performer, which is implicit in your post. What you say about Kipchoge is likely true though.
I don’t follow your logic. Yes, I think Kipketer will still be one of the top-5 fastest all time in 15 years; no, that doesn’t mean I think he was “the freak of all freaks at middle distance running.” It won’t be a particularly unique statistic or achievement. Coe remains top-5 40 years after his 1:41.73, as does Cruz 37 years on. El Guerrouj and Komen will fairly surely remain top-5 in their record events 15 years from now, and their marks are about the same age as Kipketer’s. And of course, Rudisha came along and ran faster, 3 times, and will still be faster 100 years from now.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
Peder wrote:
I think you are wrong in the sense that Kipketer ran 1:41.11 in 1997, 24 years ago. You must assume that Kipketer was the freak of all freaks at middle distance running if you think that 39 years after Kipketer ran 1:41.11 he is likely to be a top 5 performer, which is implicit in your post. What you say about Kipchoge is likely true though.
I don’t follow your logic. Yes, I think Kipketer will still be one of the top-5 fastest all time in 15 years; no, that doesn’t mean I think he was “the freak of all freaks at middle distance running.” It won’t be a particularly unique statistic or achievement. Coe remains top-5 40 years after his 1:41.73, as does Cruz 37 years on. El Guerrouj and Komen will fairly surely remain top-5 in their record events 15 years from now, and their marks are about the same age as Kipketer’s. And of course, Rudisha came along and ran faster, 3 times, and will still be faster 100 years from now.
OK so you think that Rudisha did something which was more aberrant than what Kipchoge did. The problem is there is no evidence to support it. When Kipchoge broke the world record in the marathon, he shattered it by 78 seconds. When Rudisha broke the world record he broke it by .02 and then later ends up .2 faster than Kipketer. Now it is true that Bekele later came within 2 seconds of Kipchoge’s record. Rudisha is not much of an outlier in running .82 faster than Coe did 31 years earlier. Maybe neither Rudisha nor Kipchoge are outliers.
Peder wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
I don’t follow your logic. Yes, I think Kipketer will still be one of the top-5 fastest all time in 15 years; no, that doesn’t mean I think he was “the freak of all freaks at middle distance running.” It won’t be a particularly unique statistic or achievement. Coe remains top-5 40 years after his 1:41.73, as does Cruz 37 years on. El Guerrouj and Komen will fairly surely remain top-5 in their record events 15 years from now, and their marks are about the same age as Kipketer’s. And of course, Rudisha came along and ran faster, 3 times, and will still be faster 100 years from now.
OK so you think that Rudisha did something which was more aberrant than what Kipchoge did. The problem is there is no evidence to support it. When Kipchoge broke the world record in the marathon, he shattered it by 78 seconds. When Rudisha broke the world record he broke it by .02 and then later ends up .2 faster than Kipketer. Now it is true that Bekele later came within 2 seconds of Kipchoge’s record. Rudisha is not much of an outlier in running .82 faster than Coe did 31 years earlier. Maybe neither Rudisha nor Kipchoge are outliers.
Ja rule and I are forecasting how we’ll view their times in the not so distant future. Given all the 2:02-2:03 performances in the last 2-3 years, and that 4 men ran 57:xx for the half last December, more 2:01s are surely on the way. World class/WR 800 times have improved relatively little in the last 40 years (0.82 seconds, or 0.8%) compared with an improvement of 6:54 (5.4%) on the Marathon WR. Kipchoge’s record still seems incredible, but due to the rapid progression of Marathon times due to shoe tech, etc., I expect the field to come back to him, so to speak, in the coming decade. Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 was more like the tip of the iceberg on what is now possible.
“It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” Yogi Berra.
Yeah the question is does the shoe technology and other “aids” start to impact the 800m?
When you consider that 5 of the 6 fastest performances in the 400m hurdles happened in 2021, and that the record was broken by .84 in 2021, a 29 year old record, one never knows what may happen. If something similar happened at 800m then of course the record book would be rewritten. Maybe there is more room for improvement in the marathon but this is not clear to me. Time will tell.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
Kipchoge has robbed the first legit sub-2 marathoner (should there ever be one) in a small way, since a story that might make some headlines among the general population will be met with “Didn’t that other guy already do that?”
This. I found that PR gag to have been an atrocity towards the first legit guy to run sub-2. Assholes.
From a financial and marketable perspective, I would think a sub-2 marathoner would earn way more money throughout their career and be more marketable to sponsors.
1:40. No doubt about it. I was much better in the marathon than shorter distances. But speed is key, and having it would have improved even my marathon. Never made my grade school boys relay team (11 boys, 8 made the team) and later discovered I was a distance runner in football. We had to do 20-40x 40m wind sprints. Towards the end I would be catching people I should not be catching, but for the endurance aspect. XC from then on.