Do any sub-elite (non-hobbyjoggers) here wear Altra shoes?

Tugboat1980 wrote:

You also need a lesson in physics. Shoes don’t lessen the impact. Big cushiony 8-10mm drop trainers just shift where the impact goes. Nothing you put on, or take off, of your feed reduces impact. That defies the laws of physics.

Yes. The impact goes into that big cushiony foam, bro.

low drop hater wrote:

Tugboat1980 wrote:

You also need a lesson in physics. Shoes don’t lessen the impact. Big cushiony 8-10mm drop trainers just shift where the impact goes. Nothing you put on, or take off, of your feed reduces impact. That defies the laws of physics.

Yes. The impact goes into that big cushiony foam, bro.

You are mistaking pressure with force. This is the same reason that football concussions increase with better padded helmets. People think they can hit each other harder because the force isn't felt but it is still there.

low drop hater wrote:

Thats part of their appeal. A huge % of altra wearers are granola types that 10+ years ago were into the barefoot trend. They like the 'foot shaped' zero drop 'natural' platform with those cobbled together cheap shoes. It makes them feel superior.

+1

well actually wrote:

low drop hater wrote:

Yes. The impact goes into that big cushiony foam, bro.

You are mistaking pressure with force. This is the same reason that football concussions increase with better padded helmets. People think they can hit each other harder because the force isn't felt but it is still there.

I guess people on motorcycles don´t need helmets then.

Retard alert wrote:

I guess people on motorcycles don´t need helmets then.

Idiotic analogy. I could just as easily point out that bouts with boxing gloves are objectively more dangerous and result in more deaths and brain damage than bareknuckle fights. Neither is relevant.

Here is something relevant:

Edinburger wrote:

Retard alert wrote:

I guess people on motorcycles don´t need helmets then.

Idiotic analogy. I could just as easily point out that bouts with boxing gloves are objectively more dangerous and result in more deaths and brain damage than bareknuckle fights. Neither is relevant.

Here is something relevant:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35980-6

Interestingly, they used the Hoka Conquest (a 4mm drop shoe) as the max cushion shoe and the Brooks Ghost (12mm drop) for the non-cushioned shoe. But the takeaways is supposed to be that less drop is better? Funny.

But the takeaways is supposed to be that less drop is better? Funny.

Where in that study did you find a takeaway about less drop being better? The study, and its conclusions, are about cushioning.

well actually wrote:

low drop hater wrote:

Yes. The impact goes into that big cushiony foam, bro.

You are mistaking pressure with force. This is the same reason that football concussions increase with better padded helmets. People think they can hit each other harder because the force isn't felt but it is still there.

Bingo.

Edinburger wrote:

But the takeaways is supposed to be that less drop is better? Funny.

Where in that study did you find a takeaway about less drop being better? The study, and its conclusions, are about cushioning.

What the study says and what people are interpreting the study to say are 2 different things. I wasn't referring to the study giving that takeaway FYI. ITT zero drop is being discussed, how is this study relevant to the zero drop discussion? The only way it seems relevant to me is to say that the lower drop shoe was worse, despite it having more stack and softer cushion. But I don't think we know if it was the amount of cushion, the drop or the type of cushion (softer vs firmer) that is causing the difference. Either way, this study gets pulled up all the time in discussions about cushion and every time I have seen it brought up nobody bothers to look at the 'low cushion' shoe having a 12mm drop and almost nobody would consider the Brooks Ghost to be a 'minimal low cushion shoe'.

well actually wrote:

low drop hater wrote:

Yes. The impact goes into that big cushiony foam, bro.

You are mistaking pressure with force. This is the same reason that football concussions increase with better padded helmets. People think they can hit each other harder because the force isn't felt but it is still there.

Ummm no...the person giving lessons in physics should open a textbook to elastic collisions. You also don't understand pressure or force.

The big difference in cushioned vs uncushioned shoes is how the shoes mold to your feet and that it lengthens the duration of your footstrike

To oppose gravity the same amount of force must be applied whether you are standing on a metal plate or a piece of foam so force is equal. Pressure = Force/Area, If you are stationary and the contact area between both surfaces is the same area then pressure is equal regardless of how soft it is. Now your foot isn't flat so your a softer shoe will mold to the bottom of your bony foot increasing the contact area and therein reducing the force per unit area or pressure (see what I did there...its called physics)

Things get a bit different when they are colliding i.e. jump off a box or take a step while running. The time is takes to slow down your mass and counteract gravity is lengthened as the material gets softer. Average impact force and peak impact force are 100% affected by how plastic(soft) and object involved in a collision is.

TL;dr This person does not know physics...

Your body also senses how hard or soft a surface is. If you run barefoot, your body softens the muscle tension to use your body as a shock absorber. If you run in a big, thick, cushioned shoe your body has a much harder time sensing what it’s doing in space so it tightens muscle tension and you land harder. This is seen in research studies on force plates. This is easier on some muscles, harder on others. So it’s not quite as simple as thinking about collisions. Your brain does all this automatically without you thinking about it.

This is the mechanism the new generation of marathon shoes takes advantage of to great effect, and why even a traditional race flat is faster than barefoot. Now, the question arises, is this a good thing or a bad thing? There’s no free lunch. When you hit the ground the forces are going somewhere, and shoes merely influence which parts of your body sees the forces and how your body reacts. My personal stance is that you need time in “less shoe”, meaningful time. That differs from person to person. And you need time barefoot. Barefoot does strengthen your feet. Race in whatever you are fastest in and make sure you practice in your race shoes.

To reply to original op, I'm not quite a sub 15 5k runner yet but hope to be next spring, and have run 31:30 for 10k which I feel like isn't too far off a 15k min 5k performance wise. I don't exclusively train in altras, but I do wear them on doubles and some easy runs since I like the wide toe box and think having the zero drop for some of my running helps with injuries.

I hike and walk in them - I like zero drop in theory, but they just feel so sloppy to run in. I've heard rumors they are coming out with a shoe with drop though. Gotta change that tagline.

2nd this, definitely. Going on over one year of PF and peroneal injury. Super stack for me = lower back, hip, knee issues along w/ PF, of course.

Actually mix up altra timp 3 w/ atreyu v2 now very successfully