Everybody leaving Bowerman track club?

slowly stronger wrote:

He also sent Karissa and Elise back to Park City for a day between the 5 and 10K races at the trials. They gave an interview on Ali on the Run that basically said they did not want to go, had no idea it was coming (I think) and it ended up being a disaster because the 10K got pushed up in time.

This is a guy who meticulously micromanaged this useless attempt for his athletes to not lose the benefits of altitude training (Likely compromising their recovery instead)…yet he claims he’s never heard of nandrolone. Unbelievable.

Girl of the year wrote:

slowly stronger wrote:

He also sent Karissa and Elise back to Park City for a day between the 5 and 10K races at the trials. They gave an interview on Ali on the Run that basically said they did not want to go, had no idea it was coming (I think) and it ended up being a disaster because the 10K got pushed up in time.

This is a guy who meticulously micromanaged this useless attempt for his athletes to not lose the benefits of altitude training (Likely compromising their recovery instead)…yet he claims he’s never heard of nandrolone. Unbelievable.

That is the problem with micromanaging you lose track of the big picture.

Physiologically speaking, is there any advantage at all to returning to altitude? Do you recapture what was lost in just a few days back up at Park City? Seems unlikely

Honestly, when I heard that on the podcast I wondered if he was dodging testing for them. (Of course they *could* have been tested back in Park City, but I'm sure a lot of the testers were in Eugene, so........)

another perspective wrote:

Poster who said Johnson was going to Pete the other week said Lucia Stafford. Solid if true. 4:02.1 before turning 23 is no joke. A 1998 kid like Johnson and Hurta but a faster PR than both coming out of college. Fair to say if she came through the NCAA rather than Canadian collegiate system there would probably be more hype.

https://worldathletics.org/athletes/canada/lucia-stafford-14464956

Probably would not have run 4:02 in the NCAA.

Has Chris Derrick responded to the CAS decision on Houlihan?

His initial defense was a shabby late-in-a-contract move by a guy who should know better.

Is it fair to wonder how much they would have considered her had her sister not joined them? I wouldnt say it's unlikely but it's hard to believe it wouldn't play a role

+1

goaggies wrote:

Is it fair to wonder how much they would have considered her had her sister not joined them? I wouldnt say it's unlikely but it's hard to believe it wouldn't play a role

No one in USA or Europe younger and faster than her in 2021. Only people her age and younger than her and faster are a smattering of out of the blue Ethiopians (some of whom Stafford beat in Tokyo, the others? Toss a coin if they are still running come Paris) and Nozomi Tanaka. If you are looking for a young 1500m runner to add to a pro group right now she's one of the best bets you can make.

So I think you're maybe asking the wrong question. Makes a lot of sense why BTC would want her, especially having just lost Johnson and Houlihan. However would Stafford have wanted to go to BTC if her sister wasn't already on the team? Given all the commotion there this year.

Thanks for this...I have questioned females from BTC when they showed up and performed so poorly at World XC in Aarhus. Schweizer, Hall, Frerichs had only a month before run TT 5k indoors in 15:10 but all were out of the top 50 and Frerichs who was promoted as the star of the USA team was even further back.

Yes I know the course was hilly but did Jerry not take the time to see what he was getting his athletes in for?

What I found harder to believe in the next 16 months how quickly Schweizer went from 15:10 to 14:26! An amazing level of improvement but yes it would require huge training in which some females would have struggled with.

It is a tough gig coaching female athletes for sure but before everyone gets excited about how good such and such squad is remember elite runners are all pretty much doing the same thing. The female that I coached who ran at Aarhus beat all 3 of the BTC athletes and at the time hadn't broken 16 min for 5k. Make sure if BTC athletes come to Bathurst in 2023 the coach looks at the course profile!

The program doesn't work for some, but it has brought others to heights not seen elsewhere among American distance runners. For those leaving, it didn't work, except for Quigley, who really, really improved until facing injuries this year. Personality conflicts did emerge this year as well. But to get Houlihan and Schweizer to 14:20s, Cranny, Fraser, and others to 14:40s/50s, and Frerichs to two silvers in the steeple and 8:57, while also getting Jager to medals, Centro to 13:00, Lomong, Kincaid, Teg, Solinsky, and Ahmed to sub 13 and even 12:47 in Ahmed's case, and Grant Fisher to low 13 and 5th in the Olympics is very, very impressive.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Yes, this all seems what happens when a group gets too big and the leader of it too far-removed from the athletes.

Jerry's coaching clearly works under these conditions:

1) You are fully healthy

2) You respond to lengthy, arduous strength workouts

3) You run the 1500 (as a strength-based 1500m runner) or up to the 10,000

If you get injured, you better be patient and hope you can get out of the cycle without really being catered to. If you're fast in the 800, do not expect Jerry to capitalize on your ability too much or customize your training to capitalize on your speed. I'd be dubious about him doing much for you as a marathoner either.

It does not work for everybody and when it does work, it is a big foundation of work for a very small window. Houlihan would have tested my theory but she was popped. The athletes that thrive at BTC do not do so for long. It is that simple.

coahc wrote:

The female that I coached who ran at Aarhus beat all 3 of the BTC athletes and at the time hadn't broken 16 min for 5k. Make sure if BTC athletes come to Bathurst in 2023 the coach looks at the course profile!

Who do you coach? Obviously not an American because the other 3 Americans have all broken 16:00

Bruce, Blaney, Pagano have all run significantly under 16:00.

calling you out wrote:

coahc wrote:

The female that I coached who ran at Aarhus beat all 3 of the BTC athletes and at the time hadn't broken 16 min for 5k. Make sure if BTC athletes come to Bathurst in 2023 the coach looks at the course profile!

Who do you coach? Obviously not an American because the other 3 Americans have all broken 16:00

Bruce, Blaney, Pagano have all run significantly under 16:00.

one of the 5 aussie's that placed ahead of Hall, Schweizer and Frerichs. Not everyone who posts on these boards coaches in the USA...

Roll model wrote:

moji wrote:

Why is Shalane running 6 marathons when her athletes are dropping out of their program like flies?

Publicity stunt.

That, and she has no real “coaching” duties to perform.

Two years ago she couldn’t run more than 5 minutes without knee pain and retired from the sport ..now she’s going to stunt-run 6x 42.2km ; I’m thinking her ego is hungry.

bloviating wrote:

It does not work for everybody and when it does work, it is a big foundation of work for a very small window. Houlihan would have tested my theory but she was popped. The athletes that thrive at BTC do not do so for long. It is that simple.

More roids are better for recovery. But as demonstrated by Houlihan, roiding up can backfire if you don't pay attention to the details (and get tested by AIU not USADA).

Uh, it's a workplace and Schumacher is (rightfully) high in the heirarchy. Some of you need to take a break from scrolling the 'gram for a few hours.

Not Paulo wrote:

Athletes like to feel special and it's clear that the group probably got a bit too large and a good proportion of them didn't.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I'd say most of the time a lot of athletes don't feel particularly special. I think the real issue is what other people have posted and it is that if you aren't able to run Jerry's plan exactly, you're basically SOL. So if a training system isn't working for you and/or there aren't alternative workouts for when you're feeling sick or coming back from injury, it makes sense to leave. There's no point in wasting time in a program that doesn't work with your body when it's your career.

xczvzxcv wrote:

The program doesn't work for some, but it has brought others to heights not seen elsewhere among American distance runners.

It's not so much that the program works but that whoever can survive their blunt force traume approach to training intensity/volume/frequency can obviously compete at a high level. Those people would probably succeed in most other training programs.

And that never minds if the whole group is being systematically doped to maintain their ability to handle the training and compete well, which is starting to look like a more distinct possibility with passing time.